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arthur  
#1 Posted : Thursday, November 22, 2012 4:51:34 PM(UTC)
arthur

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I've been thinking lately about the flexibility that soptchl can give me as mid layer instead of brass that I use currently.

Right now I use this brass as a mid layer.
Polertec brass, very warm. Weight 500 g.
The point is that brass loses its insulation ability very quickly when it rains and I think breathing less than soptchl so I need to take it off very quickly as soon as I started to go in the morning.

What do you say?
I think that bmshcl I can convert my brass soptchl:
1. give me an answer to morning cold in the mountains mean to start walking the first few hours when cold and shadin sweat too.
2. can I wear when it rains rather easy wear sweat/hardshl download the.
3. Gore windstopper layer to be completely opaque to the wind what fleeces usually struggle with.

Thanks in advance. Arthur 41235.578287037
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afix  
#2 Posted : Thursday, November 22, 2012 10:14:39 PM(UTC)
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This pretty brass warming. ...
Considered middle layer lighter + trophy? More flexible and useful than softshel
And a budget of 500 grams can put them both and to see change.

For example

Http://www.patagonia.com/us/product.go?style_color=40072

-Http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/mens--baselayer capilene expedition weight baselayer-quarter-zip-hoody-p = 43665 0-419 pcc & = 1094

http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/patagonia-mens-houdini-full-zip-jacket?p=24017-1-472" target="_blank">Http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/patagonia-mens-houdini full-zip jacket-p = 24017-1-472

You can also find mid layer stretch instead of dry power power and it can be a little more warm and efficient (no trophy)

Afix 41235.8102083333
afix  
#3 Posted : Thursday, November 22, 2012 10:35:52 PM(UTC)
afix

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Here are some small manufacturers have sewn mid layer exactly to your dimensions and at a reasonable price-probably cheaper than buying in the country (if you can find something) or patagucci (and bet on, match)

Http://www.foxwear.net
Http://www.coldlizard.com/

Read the recommendations but did not invite them personally.
Afix 41235.8607638889
afix  
#4 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 1:12:15 AM(UTC)
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arthur  
#5 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 11:10:42 AM(UTC)
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[QUOTE = afix] this pretty brass warming. ...
Considered middle layer lighter + trophy? More flexible and useful than softshel
And a budget of 500 grams can put them both and to see change.

You can also find mid layer stretch instead of dry power power and it can be a little more warm and efficient (no trophy)



Of course I still carry the ardshl to rain/snow. Of course not going to be dependent on the soptchl.

I'm just saying that no matter what he will never be brass impervious to wind and rain resistant as soptchl and possibly not breathing.
I mean cold/rainy bmazg I can put soptchl and replace straight hardshl like I was doing with my daughter wears fleece layer.
Arthur 41236.341400463
afix  
#6 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 3:33:20 PM(UTC)
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What I suggested has nothing to do with the trench coat as you say is needed anyway.

I was talking about soptchl replacement. It's true there will be no durable ש"פליז to rain soptchl, and also because it has a coat from him (for clarification trophy that he breathes and is designed for walking). BTW what I suggested is not exactly, although brass material comes from polertec.

Most of the combined trophy + middle layer does a good job as soptchl. What advantage do you think integration soptchl.
Regarding your comment-no doubt the middle layer of the kind sent (I think even regular brass) breathe a lot better than soptchl

A great advantage in combination you can use each layer separately and to combine layers of middle or multiple layers like this with a coat in various excursions according to conditions. Middle layer when it's fun to sleep with compared to:) soptchl



Reading in a BPL kind sent is pretty standard, no one hiking with soptchl.
Afix 41236.5311342593
afix  
#7 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 3:48:25 PM(UTC)
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Another way to explain:
Can a soptchl made 2 layers:
Mid layer elastic a little bit isolated funkier head band-Israel.
Outer layer a little breathing and little protects wind and dampness

Vdch. it is better to separate the two different items-and trophy
Afix 41236.5343055556
arthur  
#8 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 4:30:21 PM(UTC)
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I bet that when you say you mean the coat hardshl. What that trophy breathing designed to walk?

Incidentally this adds another layer to the system. By now I was getting along with three layers total.
I didn't notice this issue on BPL, why doesn't travel with soptchl? Very interested please tell me.


About what you said in the message. I don't so much agree with your opinion about soptshlim. Mine is more like this:
Middle elastic layer very, very isolated, a funkier head band-Israel.
Mid layer neoprene (!) and very moisture resistant.
It soptchl good to me.


Example Arthur 41236.5633217593
afix  
#9 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2012 10:02:20 PM(UTC)
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About Windbreakers, here's an old story quotes on BPL
Http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00036.html

We like wind t-shirts. So much so, that we'll go out on a limb and say this: there is no single piece of clothing more who to you in the backcountry than a wind shirt.

A wind shirt is an extremely simple item--nothing more than a very light (and thin) (and non-waterproof) nylon or polyester shell "cut" in a shirt, pullover, or short jacket pattern.

Here's why a wind shirt may just be the most versatile piece of clothing you can carry.

A wind shirt blocks wind and convective heat loss Word.prevents.
A wind shirt helps trap warm air within the clothing inside the wind shirt, adding power to your clothing insulation.
A wind shirt slows down evaporative light best by providing a barrier to moisture (sweat) vapor transfer.
A wind shirt is moderately water resistant, thus allowing you to wear a highly breathable shell layer for light rain while hiking without suffering the fate brought on by a clammy waterproof-breathable shell.
A wind shirt is highly breathable and can be comfortable to wear on its own in warm conditions for sun and bug protection.

Examples of relevant wind coats:
Patagonia houdini
Montbell Dynamo
Litespeed Montane
Rab Cirrus System Wind Top
Weights 120-150 g
As mentioned above, shields and breathe much better than a raincoat

The soptchl that you linked to it weighs 580 g.
Trophy with 130 g + Hat mid layer with a hat and half rizertz 220 g.
Together they give too much 350 made more flexible in use and pads on top unlike what you linked to. If you think you need mid layer thicker, so the difference in weight will be smaller but I guess not every trip will need something like that and here you have the option to adjust the middle layer and trip to carry the most.

So I understand why people not travelling soptchl-flexible and easy alternative.

Afix 41236.8053009259
arthur  
#10 Posted : Saturday, November 24, 2012 2:37:45 AM(UTC)
arthur

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Upon first uploading relevant points and the time you spend.

Quality soptchl and indstoper rated a 0 CMF IE completely sealed to the wind, I'll try to search whether trophy can also be that effective.

I only have to figure out how these coats abuse resistance rock/snow/ice.
I'm a little biased in favor of things that are more adapted to high mountains because of small project on my mind so I'm looking at things beyond easy.

Arthur 41237.022037037
afix  
#11 Posted : Saturday, November 24, 2012 3:53:18 PM(UTC)
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In fun.

I guess 100% durability even in very windy at a certain voltage d with some garment. These coats are useful because they can breathe. In case you need some reason 100% sealing severe conditions can put ardshl above.

I don't think the soft wind jackets are resistant to ב"התעללות. In addition are mainly intended for 3 seasons (maybe summer mountains). If you aim for the right travel cases or "abuse" there may be more logic in soptchl.

But if you go back to your first post, I think most people, walks 3 points you raise are preferred by the combination of a layer and trophy.

Anyway, would recommend you to search users ' reviews on the coats I mentioned to get some input (easiest to find about the houdini that is quite popular for years.)

Afix 41237.5434953704
arthur  
#12 Posted : Saturday, November 24, 2012 8:01:56 PM(UTC)
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IFOREX audio definitely got me a new perspective.

The thing that made that I became interested in soptchl is a brass to spare me the advantages already mentioned before, so I'm changing in 500 g 500 g but gain the advantages of soptchl over brass.

But you have a good point. The point is that I think the attire will be less comfortable in the mountains because he just wasn't meant for that.
For example the soptchl of amott I gave as an example not just respect but because of very strong material and sewn in a way that allows high flexibility level and using the hands above the head. The so-called FRONT REACH

Another thing is ultimately when it comes to part of three seasons in the mountains getting very cold and therefore need a thicker layer, which is why I think that the difference between the soptchl and the option will be minimal if at all.

But I could be wrong. Total earn 200 grams is something blessed.

Thanks again for the feedback.
MikeC  
#13 Posted : Saturday, November 24, 2012 10:56:31 PM(UTC)
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Arthur Darling
I think you're confusing several considerations (like on the bags you can always say "I have no money so I buy the heaviest/strong match to all but paying weight ...)
Give a lot of information. But don't add data:

Your brass heavy fighter like crazy!!!

I'd go with BASE + ikoplis + trophy

I think you should decide if you are climbing or alpine travel-it's just not the same. Technical heavy coats are hysterical OVERKILL for 3 seasons. Done a little snow/ice in the last trip-whether it's direction.

As with shoes you can wear shoes B3 (eg this ) also most relaxed tour. It's just respect.

SOFTSHELL are by definition compromise was born to provide convenience for traveling in the snow (= no rain!) and doing tasks that enable switching layers.

I know mostly use BASE + icroplis (or similar) + WINDSHELL-I would think a reason why not.
arthur  
#14 Posted : Sunday, November 25, 2012 12:48:42 AM(UTC)
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[QUOTE = MikeC] Arthur Darling
I think you're confusing several considerations (like on the bags you can always say "I have no money so I buy the heaviest/strong match to all but paying weight ...)
Give a lot of information. But don't add data:

Your brass heavy fighter like crazy!!!

I'd go with BASE + ikoplis + trophy

I think you should decide if you are climbing or alpine travel-it's just not the same. Technical heavy coats are hysterical OVERKILL for 3 seasons. Done a little snow/ice in the last trip-whether it's direction.

As with shoes you can wear shoes B3 (eg this ) also most relaxed tour. It's just respect.

SOFTSHELL are by definition compromise was born to provide convenience for traveling in the snow (= no rain!) and doing tasks that enable switching layers.

I know mostly use BASE + icroplis (or similar) + so I think WINDSHELL well and find a very good reason why not


Isn't that what I said about the cases. I'm very into dedicated things, believe me, but in this case, and the amount of travel I do on earth I can easily handle file and it doesn't justify Alpine Kenya 2.


I agree with you that my hot and heavy plis but sometimes it does not. It is very cold at night in the mountains, even in summer, I'm not talking about a trip 3 seasons getting really cold.
How to warm up with micro fleece 2 degrees Celsius or less?
BTW this is also a very indodyouli topic, my body fat percentage is very low and hard. I am always careful when advising a man of warm clothing.

About deciding what I want to do. I agree with every word. But that's what dictates? I want to have easy on your back, the lower section and the rest of the sections.
I know you probably have to pay somewhere, but why not try and make some kind of compromise?
I understand (not just the last trip) to a simple Tester equipment not suitable for lifting and carrying heavy stuff when going down the mountain is very depressing but it's aim to build (with your help of course) to answer 2 I really needs and think it's possible.



Arthur 41237.9138773148
afix  
#15 Posted : Sunday, November 25, 2012 2:49:30 AM(UTC)
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The point about icroplis-at least my microplis totally break into cold air and more elastic and tight bathing the body feel more effective. I also remember that forums index-BPL nisley as 60% more insulation to power stretch compared to icroplis.

Those who want to save and buy in a few dozen dollars icroplis so cool, but who is icroplis weighing in 300 + NIS that the brass polertec of land like marmot, or so I think TNF far from power dry garment, or stretch.

About-insulation if you need something that will separate it into another item (like a coat quality, easy reverse).

If you try to buy one of everything that is going to be too hot most days in most daily trips most nights. The approach of several different items make them actually more useful.
Afix 41238.0174768519
arthur  
#16 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 10:55:50 AM(UTC)
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So I'm considering buying a too above backwards. BTW he can definitely be a good alternative to brass. He probably weighs less warm and much more.

Mike, I wonder what the soptchl is overkill on a trip three seasons? Weight? In price? Insulating ability?

Why do you think soptchl is a compromise designed to people travelling?
I don't agree with this opinion.
Wanted warm garment but breathing exercise, ioiafusr would be stretched, and be durable.
Arthur 41239.330775463
MikeC  
#17 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 3:24:14 PM(UTC)
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Arthur
I don't know the whole truth (:

Here's what I see:
First of all there is to my taste 2 SOFTSHELL types-they BASE/MID with more sophisticated fabric (POWERDRY + STRETCH) i.e. they should replace these layers simple garment more attached to the body and has a HYBRID of features etc etc and evaporation STRETCH
This type I'm not counting as a personal soptchl are simply BASE/MID and advanced for high aerobic activity in cold.

The second type – I think we're talking MID +-switch to SHELL and here begins the interesting thing--that is supposed to combine features of both with compromising some features.

If you are really (really!) so you alpinism. You probably need ropes, ice screws, pythons, ice axes, sporty shoes very hot hardness (B3) 14 spikes crampons, etc.

You also have to contend with the clothing to replace layers with an effort of climbing profile-BELAY-BELAY prototypes etc.
That means she probably (cold temperatures) BASE + maybe another layer + SHELL BELAY jacket + + type + gloves gloves Yes and BELAY. In such a situation could very well be that would be great just SOFTSHELL for when the climber needs a combination of excellent crop EXTENSION .DWR wind, sweating and transit medium isolation when stopping you throw the BELAY you. In these situations, there are no (!!!) and faced SOFTSHELL rain with snow, SPINDRIFT sprinkles. Who makes alpine climbing in the pouring rain in a big dead. No such animal.

Another story that SNOWSHOE/SKI/SNOWBOARD-again (!) rain in planning these events or cold enough to snow accumulation.


If however you say makes trips 3 1/2 seasons with a chance of rain and snow, but maybe too long etc etc and majority (i.e. not climbing technical climbing!!) and the problem is not a problem-you can rely on a combination easier and/or more flexible (BASE + MID + WIND + PUFFY + HARDSHELL)
What I think was the problem in your trip is not a concept but the execution-a relatively thin MID (MID or more advanced icroplis as mentioned here) and warming takes great sweat nor seal-like spirit so that heats up too much and can give sweat to evaporate but if you put a coat on. It should be easy for walking in the zero temperature (because if the Temps are below zero returned to no rain script!!!!)
Of course you have to choose the BASE MID depending on conditions there exactly — if temperature is 15 c so if thin enough so more thick 2 c.
You take brass (= MID) too thick! And therefore excessive and that way) you need thinner and PUFFY coat (flip/synthetic) and stops.

Of course you can also use soptchl here but:
There is no way the two soptchl breathing more than a standard MID FILE
Always (!) would be a compromise between cutting insulation/wind/rain resistance, convection and sweat evaporation
Soptshlim not really rain-crock-like any other EXTENSION .DWR coat (coat, for example) but after 5 minutes in the rain coat is broken and begins to absorb water, which is exactly like MID + Trophy with good EXTENSION .DWR.

The reason you "think" they are resistant to rain it because:
They have no EXTENSION .DWR and brass (supposed unfair comparison)
They cut the wind and brass not-feel less cold (again not fair)

Mickey
אסף א  
#18 Posted : Monday, November 26, 2012 11:33:52 PM(UTC)
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Man

I don't have enough warm words to say about wind jacket marmot.
Here
This thing is a kind of magic.
I went with the rain, snow and wind, temperatures and somehow I always had.
Is opaque enough to rain/snow, Kal, and survived the PCT/CDT in shape inspires respect (I'm still going with him on a daily basis)
Not just he turned to (almost) on long routes.
Asaf a. 41239.859837963
arthur  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, November 27, 2012 10:25:24 PM(UTC)
arthur

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[QUOTE = MikeC] Arthur
I don't know the whole truth (:

Here's what I see:
First of all there is to my taste 2 SOFTSHELL types-they BASE/MID with more sophisticated fabric (POWERDRY + STRETCH) i.e. they should replace these layers simple garment more attached to the body and has a HYBRID of features etc etc and evaporation STRETCH
This type I'm not counting as a personal soptchl are simply BASE/MID and advanced for high aerobic activity in cold.

The second type – I think we're talking MID +-switch to SHELL and here begins the interesting thing--that is supposed to combine features of both with compromising some features.

If you are really (really!) so you alpinism. You probably need ropes, ice screws, pythons, ice axes, sporty shoes very hot hardness (B3) 14 spikes crampons, etc.

Mickey mentioned here not necessarily need the same gear for climbing. There are many styles of untniring and mount different probably don't always have hurry up you mentioned:

Don't always use the Pythons and ice screw.

About axes, axe not suitable for technical climbing. 14 krampon again not necessarily suitable for climbing.

But that's not what I'm asking. I don't think this is the place to talk about this stuff but I'd love to hear what you have to say about it if still want private message that I'm thinking about starting to buy.


You also have to contend with the clothing to replace layers with an effort of climbing profile-BELAY-BELAY prototypes etc.
That means she probably (cold temperatures) BASE + maybe another layer + SHELL BELAY jacket + + type + gloves gloves Yes and BELAY. In such a situation could very well be that would be great just SOFTSHELL for when the climber needs a combination of excellent crop EXTENSION .DWR wind, sweating and transit medium isolation when stopping you throw the BELAY you. In these situations, there are no (!!!) and faced SOFTSHELL rain with snow, SPINDRIFT sprinkles. Who makes alpine climbing in the pouring rain in a big dead. No such animal.

Another story that SNOWSHOE/SKI/SNOWBOARD-again (!) rain in planning these events or cold enough to snow accumulation.


If however you say makes trips 3 1/2 seasons with a chance of rain and snow, but maybe too long etc etc and majority (i.e. not climbing technical climbing!!) and the problem is not a problem-you can rely on a combination easier and/or more flexible (BASE + MID + WIND + PUFFY + HARDSHELL)
What I think was the problem in your trip is not a concept but the execution-a relatively thin MID (MID or more advanced icroplis as mentioned here) and warming takes great sweat nor seal-like spirit so that heats up too much and can give sweat to evaporate but if you put a coat on. It should be easy for walking in the zero temperature (because if the Temps are below zero returned to no rain script!!!!)
Of course you have to choose the BASE MID depending on conditions there exactly — if temperature is 15 c so if thin enough so more thick 2 c.
You take brass (= MID) too thick! And therefore excessive and that way) you need thinner and PUFFY coat (flip/synthetic) and stops.

Of course you can also use soptchl here but:
There is no way the two soptchl breathing more than a standard MID FILE
Always (!) would be a compromise between cutting insulation/wind/rain resistance, convection and sweat evaporation
Soptshlim not really rain-crock-like any other EXTENSION .DWR coat (coat, for example) but after 5 minutes in the rain coat is broken and begins to absorb water, which is exactly like MID + Trophy with good EXTENSION .DWR.

Interesting point, I was sure by now that soptchl breathing better than brass. But I believe you.

So are you saying that microplis as a layer sec + trophy will give good response to walking in drizzle/fog/spirit?



The reason you "think" they are resistant to rain it because:
They have no EXTENSION .DWR and brass (supposed unfair comparison)
They cut the wind and brass not-feel less cold (again not fair)

I'm aware of but, because brass material texture absorbs more water soptchl not related to EXTENSION .DWR. And it cuts the wind and has slept so great even WINDSTOPPER?

As I see it, I get the benefits of blocking wind + reasonable + breath סטרצ'י material adapted to the use of hands (even if it's via a serious privatization or skrmbling not have to Mount Everest) the brass won't let me. And weighing half a kilogram.
Mickey

I don't think I made myself clear, I'm not thinking about replacing soptchl and topsoil layer, but as an alternative to the mid layer my own. Of course, I still take my ardshl of rain.

Guys again many thanks for serious responses to my question.

Arthur 41240.8121643519
arthur  
#20 Posted : Friday, January 18, 2013 1:16:54 PM(UTC)
arthur

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[QUOTE = MikeC] Arthur Darling
I think you're confusing several considerations (like on the bags you can always say "I have no money so I buy the heaviest/strong match to all but paying weight ...)
Give a lot of information. But don't add data:

Your brass heavy fighter like crazy!!!

I'd go with BASE + ikoplis + trophy

I think you should decide if you are climbing or alpine travel-it's just not the same. Technical heavy coats are hysterical OVERKILL for 3 seasons. Done a little snow/ice in the last trip-whether it's direction.

As with shoes you can wear shoes B3 (eg this ) also most relaxed tour. It's just respect.

SOFTSHELL are by definition compromise was born to provide convenience for traveling in the snow (= no rain!) and doing tasks that enable switching layers.

I know mostly use BASE + icroplis (or similar) + so I think WINDSHELL well and find a very good reason why not


After a lot of thinking I decided to really go to a layer that is appropriate to the task.
After reading some articles on the Web, I think soptchl is exactly what I was looking for, a layer that can replace the middle layer and the outer layer of snow + wind mode.
Of course, take the hardshl also in case of bad weather.
What they say Arthur 41292.4285648148
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