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neutrino  
#21 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 6:03:29 PM(UTC)
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Wow:) I'm completely overwhelmed

First of all, the quilt is intended for use in Israel. So it should be fine 30F temp rating engine. And yes I wanted quilt because of its versatility to toss it open when it's really warm.

Another thing which may be important is how you sleep (I mean side/back/stomach) I'm stomach sleeper and as I understand from other users it's quilt advantage because when you sleep on side you create shows l cold in a quilt (down falls to the sides). However derease overfill will this effect.
MikeC  
#22 Posted : Sunday, January 6, 2013 11:37:14 PM(UTC)
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Greg
Are you going to get another quilt for travelling outside israel? You realize that adding down is the lightest most efficient way to add warmth ... maybe a quilt 20F is a good compromise if you dont have other bags .... what else will u be using? Etc ...

I would also consider (just saying) a synthetic quilt like MLD ... the rational being that for mild weather (like isarel-i have used it successfully here) and is relatively light since its a quilt and can be used over your other bag for low temps ... just a thought

As you're very well know all the companies you're respectable discussed (enlightened, jrb, zpacks, nunatak, Katabatic, goosefeetgear and there are more

I think if i were to look for a bag I would take a 30F look at WM/FF and see what the standard fill weights are (of course compensating for the difference in area
I would then set that as the target for my quilt (I have heard that katabatic is conservative as well
And take a look at the cross section of products available in that weight range button
The rational here being that rating engine temp is really the only thing you cannot compromise on and you want to hit your target

From that point on its more about price/features/quality/weight type of tradeoff.
I think you will be well served by all these products (and maybe even put your hands on a golite 20F for much less

I think there are two main dilemmas:
The first is if you want a quilt or not fully open
The second is just if you want top of the line or custom or just good value etc.

M
neutrino  
#23 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 2:53:49 AM(UTC)
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Not sure what to do outside of Israel. I do have 2 bags, but the first is somewhat bulky and does not compress well and the second is relatively heavy: 1.2 kg. Both were store-bought supplies in rikushet/lametayel shops (recommendations depended on the sellers)

I want to upgrade my gear and make it as light as possible (to some of my comfort level). As I understood from Anat (ZPacks, the owner of 10F bag) under 20F quilt I'll be roasted in a network summer warmth. So that leads me to a 30F quilt which I will use during 4 seasons here. I'm not going to have winter trips to mountains in near future (unfortunately) so that is my use of quilt

While warm quilt may be enough for winter in Israel, in summer I can keep it open completely. So what I want is the real quilt that I can open for warmer temps.

I do some observations in astronomy desert apart of hiking (star-as I have some big telescope). So when I'm camping in the desert I want to keep myself "from drafts. Hence I need some sort of attaching pad system.

Since I'm going to use quilt in a Tent, I think Hexamid ZPacks down is better for me (lighter). It should not be a Condensation problem.

It is a great idea to compare down fill weight of standard bags. I'll look at them. EE seems to be adequate in this regard, but I'll check.

Not sure what to do with all of the types comes 10 d etc. How to choose the right fabric? I have no idea what are the differences apart maybe weight.

Regarding dilemmas: what is open quilt? Not all quilts are open? Do you mean that the footbox is also can be opened? So the quilt is really like a blanket? The second: I want something that will last for 3 years of moderate but careful use. I want however to spend as less money as possible but if there is something I really need in a $ 400 quilt I'll buy it.

Thank you for your input. It's very helpful.

MikeC  
#24 Posted : Monday, January 7, 2013 6:00:27 PM(UTC)
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Greg
Why didnt we do english earlier...so much better

Re hot in quilt in israel. IMO if you use a quilt that can open fully 20F you shouldn't really have any trouble even in season 2 and 3 in israel ... for the summer here you dont need anything really

Just saying that if the other bags you have are not that great (weight wise) I would opt for a more general purpose infusion bag in 20F

I love down ... have 4 down bags and just 2 synth (although one of them is a double bag store-bought supplies for car camping w ith the wife

Fabrics-its a bit tricky cause the "10 d" isnt the whole story. Basically denier is a unit of mass-it is the number of grams that 9000 meters of the specific fiber weigh. So 10D means that that fiber weighs 15 g per 9000 meters. The problem is that this says nothing about some important parameters like the density of the weave-how tightly knit the fabric or fibers are in the about the EXTENSION .DWR finish they have or dont have or about the downproofing (cire) finish

But-what you generally have in sleeping bags is breathable fabric with finish on one side and EXTENSION .DWR cire finish on the other and the smaller the number, the lighter the denier fabric usually

When someone says it means that 10D usually 10X15D and fibers 10 d and weaved in different directions ... ... although sometimes when people say it means that the 10X15D ripstop fabric is yarn construction is used 10D with 10 d as the ripstop grid

As per what you are-why are you just dont get the REVX-it is really good value for money, fully opens, cinches down nicely, has good quality and is only slightly heavier fabric 30D

I have heard that the new KARO STEP now have better makes Tim baffles dimensions and mitigate down movement well

Also Tim is a really nice guy to work with

M
MikeC  
#25 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 12:29:11 AM(UTC)
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Here is an example of excellent used
BPL GEARSWAP
neutrino  
#26 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:09:46 AM(UTC)
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English is indeed much better since we already use a bunch of terms in english so text with 50/50 looks weird mixed Hebrew English & and not that readable (apart of ALT-SHIFTING all the time)

Almost all quilts have some sort of straps, cords and perforated so you can wrap them around for better draft control. Not sure what do you mean by "quilts" fully opened.

I've camped a lot in summer in the desert and I have to say it's not always that warm there. I would like to have some bag or quilt, maybe not that warm but something to cover with.

Do you think my quilt 30F rating engine is not appropriate for Israel?
Is bag 20F/quilt will be better?
In summer I still need some bag. Because of the star as in the desert. There are cool nights there even in summer.


The REVX quilt is good value for the money. Thisis for sure. But I want to better understand all these baffles:) So I'm currently filling up the table. What a hassle:D

Thanks. I'll upload it to Google is after I finish it.
Neutrino 41281.9310763889
neutrino  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:19:58 AM(UTC)
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Who is Javan?
No attaching system
No collar '
No cinching cord
Foot box seems too narrow in the pic
How would you wrap this quilt around you to prevent drafts?

But the price is realy good. $ 250 for 14 oz quilt.
neutrino  
#28 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:22:11 AM(UTC)
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MikeC  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:08:35 AM(UTC)
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Greg
What i meant by "fully open" is indeed a quilt that can open like a comforter (AKA blanket

All i said re israel is that IMo the weather is not so challenging so there are many solutions

30F would of course be fine here-what i meant was that would be more internationally 20F useful and IMO if its a quilt that can i cant fully open see why you cannot use it in israel if temps a bit higher. WCS just open it a bit or put out the feet etc


RE-take a look at baffles this
Most UL bags (that are usually meant for milder temps and not full blown arctic winter) have horizontal continuous baffles (EG westernmountaineering) the good about it is that the migration that baffles mitigate down wit and the right amount of fill the down move around too much doesnt matter how horizontally ... but IF YOU WANT TO you can pat the bag down and move the button to the top if you are cold or bottom (underneath you) if you are too warm. And you could so this differently at the feet vs. the torso

Some MFG (eg Marmot Plasma) use where the vertical baffles down sideways at all cannot migrate only head to toe. Traditionally this was only used on the torso area (see

Stoic somnus

Since the long vertical baffles did not control down migration well. .. but (use special baffles Marmot made by INSOTECT that
Have special "gates" flow that are like movable partitions along the vertical baffle
The plus side of the vertical baffle-especially on the torso is that it resists moving down from the top to be beneath you in the torso area, which is where most people toss and turn and have lots of contact with the bag

Karo step Regarding baffles
Take a look at this photo
You can easily see what i meant about "adjacent boxes with cut out corners"

The idea is that this design migration in both directions-controls horizontally and vertically while still allowing you to move the down.

If you take a look at this
You will have a much better idea of what i mean (watch the vids as well ... especially the last one where you can see the baffles

You will notice that in this design for any given box size (say 10 inches) you can have a wall size that is between almost none to almost anything 10inches...so you can change how big the "hole" in the corner of the box is and this will affect how well you control migration but affect inversly how easy it is to move the down around

Last year people said about Tim's baffles that the hole was too big and he changed it IMO

Long story short – buy a REVX 20F.
MikeC  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:15:00 AM(UTC)
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Javan is a guy who used to sell on BPL quilts under the name "The stateless society"

I tried to talk to him about making me one (and i know people were impressed with his work0 but he said he was "burnt out" from quilts and is doing other stuff

Take a look at his picasa

Re your Qs:
Many people use quilts this way-just tuck them in under you

IMO you will easily sew shockcord loops for a grosgrain
It has a cinch cord at the neck (you can see in the second photo

Mummy style footbox is not like blanket-will open ... but the price, oh the price41281.9702893519 MikeC
neutrino  
#31 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 2:46:58 AM(UTC)
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Thank you Mickey!

My wife entered the room and asked me what a heck I'm doing in excel at 11 pm. Well, I said, I'm filling that specs table with quilts. Huh? Are you crazy?
:)

I dig. I read about Karo baffles on Tim's site. It states the following: "Space between baffles has been reduced for 2013 which greatly and dramatically increases down control and reduces shifting." You'relooking right.

Not sure if is fully open quilt what I'm searching for. Maybe it's a good add-on. I think EE down quilts have such a feature.

I took your recommendation and boosted up to temp 20F quilts. This makes more sense indeed. It was also my initial target. So what I see from the table right now (it is still not completed yet), the fill weight is highest in EE and lowest in quilts and zpacks. However I understand that the total area of quilt is also important. How can I get this metric?

Also release baffle height "nunatak". Strange that EE baffle height and loft mentions separately. I thought it's the same. I understand that loft baffle height specifies how much you may if you overfill limited.gain more bullets by enough. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Also same problem with the fabrics. EE quilts you can choose inner/outer fabrics. 10D/10 d Generally don't know what are the diffs except specifies the color:)
In 30D they put of 2nds RevX so that makes the quilt a bit heavier (30 gram) not an issue for $ 210 quilt!

Until now Zpacks is the lightest (but also down filled (fewest

It's so more interesting:) I have WM and katabatic on the way. Have I missed something? Zpacks, Nunatak, EE, WM, Katabatic.
זמי1  
#32 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 1:29:09 PM(UTC)
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Please write in Hebrew. Not everyone is taking over English.

Thank you.

MikeC  
#33 Posted : Tuesday, January 8, 2013 8:31:16 PM(UTC)
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The mm

Request Hebrew language:)

So:
Familiar with the sensation. My wife knows I'm crazy.

Open full QUILT-EE, JOE can do kastos (ANAT) TOM from kastost NUNATAK can do I think not doing kastomistiot KATBATIC AHRON m. .. Personally, if I buy the QUILT on completely opened. I think it fits well with the whole concept of freedom of movement and orstiliot. The MLD my SPIRIT.
Of course, if weight is the leading FOOTBOX. close. But since you probably won't buy many different uses sea QUILT I was considering adding it in characterization to expand the use

About HEIGHT first BAFFLE-send emails and ask ... Better come through.

I think it has to do with two things:
1) TIM writes that 20% chstandert OVERFILL
2) that the minimum BAFFLE HEIGHT-how tall mechanical piece of cloth usually 0או) that connects the OUTER SHELL to the INNER SHELL. Obviously in the middle between the BAFFLE walls has more effective height.

I think if you connect these two facts TIM saying that the LOFT to consider effective 2.25 "

If read on a cluster (very long) of RICHARD NISLEY on BPL called "NEW PARADIGM" see you that insight of Nu today say the amount of upside per unit area (the LOFT) is the leading factor in determining rank of shcsh. (COMPRESSION ATTRIBUTE field of up to 250%) Therefore I was less concerned than the quantity vs.
For resetting the intentions would take the BAFFLE HEIGHT of WM as GOLDEN STANDARD – if off, it's probably a lot less successful.

The reason I say "reverse weight per unit area (assuming of course you make quality is the same for everyone) is a linear heat loss is in contact with the cold air-so for a certain amount of upside as a larger surface of isolation.

For example-shcsh 400 c reverse 900FP he basks in more narrow (given that all other parameters are the same) than wide ID shcsh

Most companies do not provide full data-I did the GIRTH according to approximation the shoulders, waist, legs (for example to such data have WM)

Note that all kinds of TAPER-angle ashcsh it quits because their shoulders to rgilis. Take a look at PICASA for

JAVAN
And see the differences between sea QUILT when they open.
What I did when I had this email provider and ask how being the width of the QUILT at any point. Now take that number and I did help to approximate the territories between different keys. I added about 15% extra HOOD (as in shcsh)

About fabrics-read his site pretty obvious differences in weight and structure. You can try to write to him and ask more technical data such as BREATHABILITY how measures etc.
Personally I believe in rather heavy weight shcsh's very easy compared to keeping shcsh.
I מ7D my shcsh (which is the easiest market today resembles NB1). I've been quietly doing the INNER from NB1 debating to the OUTER if NB1 2. "unless you're going to sleep with the shcsh outside the tent and not BIVI.

Another idea is to put more durable material only in FOOTBOX and (as the EVENT option MLD's QUILTS – it helps to protect against dampness in friction with tent and moisture from your breath

Again I repeat think REVX bomb!!!

You think wrong! ZPACKS not easy!!!!! Is the least hot!!! That's cheating. Suggest you do enable normalization quantity per unit area then look really the distribution of weights for sea QUILT they really like ... terraced Otherwise what exactly are you comparing?????

Don't add the JRB. They are also quite cheap.

Mickey
neutrino  
#34 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2013 6:12:38 PM(UTC)
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Mickey, here: link

Meanwhile waiting for answers from the manufacturers. When will complete information. 20F. kowiltim.
MikeC  
#35 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2013 7:19:40 PM(UTC)
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Note that current users NUNATAK in FP875 and have an option to FP950
afix  
#36 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2013 7:49:28 PM(UTC)
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A mind-quilt (JRB) nylon 30D and I'm not very happy with his tolerance. But in this bivi terptant fan on it. On the other hand I am very sensitive to cold.
easyman  
#37 Posted : Wednesday, January 9, 2013 8:00:55 PM(UTC)
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Hello, most formulas lost understanding what this Institute's Forum with respect to professors and I'm sure you well-educated scholars and graduate of the University of the sciences HIKING I really appreciate your knowledge.  I want to buy the company specified quilt

In Enlightened As she has REV and REV X

What is and what is 30D 10 d- Mention that I if I need tarptant Double Rainbow and coilette 10

10 20° f. or better here has good prices on Enlightened but I need As

Some good quality do you recommend this company? And trips to places even more cold cases from Mount Hermon and high mountains can I rely on 30D or buy 10 d REV REV or X? And the question you can't buy anywhere?

Quilt is ready and waiting to prepare it or sew it prolonged waiting time not found on eBay and Amazon.

Easyman 41283.7205555556

neutrino  
#38 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:29:41 AM(UTC)
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Afix, dagobah. Considered in decided for sure.

Izzy, you are confusing things. 10 d and 30D are types of fiber from which textiles are made the quilt's not directly related to temperature (indirectly).

BTW, I am on kowiltim and which is very interesting:) At least I know (hopefully) how why and how before you buy.

Mikey, thanks for the PM I want to spend a little more and understand. If you don't take it all so take (if I decide to go in the direction of Tim). Received replies from several manufacturers. Fill the table tomorrow morning.
arthur  
#39 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 4:36:50 AM(UTC)
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D is an abbreviation of Denier m which of fiber density unit and its type.
Isiman, when you say high?
If you mean what I mean in the mountains so high it's not optional quilt Arthur 41284.0680555556
neutrino  
#40 Posted : Thursday, January 10, 2013 10:35:18 AM(UTC)
neutrino

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You're right about Artur to denier.
There are 18-kowiltim 0F it. It's not so cold but still in the mountains summer height of 3000-4000 is fine.
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