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arthur  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, January 1, 2014 3:48:43 PM(UTC)
arthur

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Hey guys, someone already bought or experiment with new genres and this so-called revolutionary of TNF-

Link to the product I have seen that he came to earth not long ago but I never got to hear criticisms of him.

I am looking for a light jacket and warms who knows how to work with layers and warms even when wet.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 1, 2014 4:17:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Sponsor
idanz  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, January 1, 2014 6:59:54 PM(UTC)
idanz

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"Allegedly" was in place. Primaloft is, maybe a little more durable, but less heat in relation to weight. There are many better than him if you really want a synthetic.

If I remember correctly the model so that the coat you seek (backwards water-resistant (?))

Unless you want a thicker coat (and then he doesn't exactly fit in with other stuff)

arthur  
#3 Posted : Thursday, January 2, 2014 2:33:32 AM(UTC)
arthur

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Know the ghost, but unfortunately do not get it. And I'm debating whether I prefer something synthetic about the resistance to moisture conditions.

Today I went to measure tramovol, not bad really. Really easy and comfortable. The problem is not optimized, costs much more when you raise your hands in the air.

I wonder how many grams per meter fills. That way you could compare it to other high-quality synthetic coats.

HarmonicWave  
#4 Posted : Thursday, January 2, 2014 11:40:43 AM(UTC)
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If an isolated material than other synthetic fills the criteria of per (not sure what that means) won't say much about his isolation capability.
arthur  
#5 Posted : Thursday, January 2, 2014 1:21:20 PM(UTC)
arthur

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You know he's more isolated from other materials?

Amtrak  
#6 Posted : Thursday, January 2, 2014 1:53:50 PM(UTC)
Amtrak

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Man
Israel

The claim of TNF is warming in 20% more than standard primalopt.
MH's argument is that the synthetic insulation (Thermal. Q ™ Elite) is warming in 20% more than standard primalopt (or any other random number)
I have no idea how they compare and compare (volume/weight)
avimeron  
#7 Posted : Thursday, January 2, 2014 1:57:09 PM(UTC)
avimeron

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Arthur

If you go by the products of the land you on antler eating S'mores?

In Israel, at least in the field of trips (don't know, although I think besides the last layer, there is no difference between the approaches) the supply is low, low, likely from previous years, it is likely inflated priced and will probably sell you what you don't need

As long as there is no laboratory data all data of the companies is marketing gimmick

Eventually, even make it resistant to marketing gimmick. As dusk fell and the rain will be difficult conditions wet, no matter what. Apkyavit way to prevent that this quality ardshl mountains probably have. The waterproofing layers less critical, unless you're going to deal with heavy sweat, then those cases synthetic material may be preferable. Like RAB XENON

Encourage you to get help from the Forum members in the process of importation of such products. 90% of the time, even if you pay both customs and pp, it will cost less than buying at a store. ו99% receive a product better.

Good luck

Amtrak  
#8 Posted : Thursday, January 2, 2014 3:02:08 PM(UTC)
Amtrak

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You have here a review on Thermoball, even though it looks like some kind of ripping man bloggers that send Phillip TNF. But usually I keep his criticism, so maybe there's something here.

arthur  
#9 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2014 12:59:01 AM(UTC)
arthur

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[Quote = avimeron; 577941]

Arthur

If you go by the products of the land you on antler eating S'mores?

In Israel, at least in the field of trips (don't know, although I think besides the last layer, there is no difference between the approaches) the supply is low, low, likely from previous years, it is likely inflated priced and will probably sell you what you don't need

As long as there is no laboratory data all data of the companies is marketing gimmick

Eventually, even make it resistant to marketing gimmick. As dusk fell and the rain will be difficult conditions wet, no matter what. Apkyavit way to prevent that this quality ardshl mountains probably have. The waterproofing layers less critical, unless you're going to deal with heavy sweat, then those cases synthetic material may be preferable. Like RAB XENON

Encourage you to get help from the Forum members in the process of importation of such products. 90% of the time, even if you pay both customs and pp, it will cost less than buying at a store. ו99% receive a product better.

Indeed, the country has limited selection but there are some stores that sell quality equipment. Don't post here can not say names I post someone. Incidentally I disagree if an item from a collection of one or more back must say that is not good. (What do you lachnviot in the country "to get rid" of quality products because people who dislike their high price and thus leaves a State that was end product in 2009 no longer so a hit in 2014) I follow the products of leading companies for a few years and every year products exported in the same format with minor cosmetic changes like new colors.

No way to buy bathing suit not robbed. If I can't find something I like in Israel I just save my money and buy it abroad when I get there.

I agree with you that less critical water haitum in internal layers, (and I don't believe there's any garment except rubber suit divers waterproof) but when the middle layer wet, I prefer it to be and make synthetic?

On the link you gave is the explanation of the material itself, not just criticizing.

If I don't find an alternative for middle layer soon light heats with a hoodie, you probably buy the tramovol although it is not a new product.

avimeron  
#10 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2014 2:01:41 AM(UTC)
avimeron

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[Quote = arthur; 577944]

[Quote = avimeron; 577941]

Arthur

If you go by the products of the land you on antler eating S'mores?

In Israel, at least in the field of trips (don't know, although I think besides the last layer, there is no difference between the approaches) the supply is low, low, likely from previous years, it is likely inflated priced and will probably sell you what you don't need

As long as there is no laboratory data all data of the companies is marketing gimmick

Eventually, even make it resistant to marketing gimmick. As dusk fell and the rain will be difficult conditions wet, no matter what. Apkyavit way to prevent that this quality ardshl mountains probably have. The waterproofing layers less critical, unless you're going to deal with heavy sweat, then those cases synthetic material may be preferable. Like RAB XENON

Encourage you to get help from the Forum members in the process of importation of such products. 90% of the time, even if you pay both customs and pp, it will cost less than buying at a store. ו99% receive a product better.

Indeed, the country has limited selection but there are some stores that sell quality equipment. Don't post here can not say names I post someone. Incidentally I disagree if an item from a collection of one or more back must say that is not good. (What do you lachnviot in the country "to get rid" of quality products because people who dislike their high price and thus leaves a State that was end product in 2009 no longer so a hit in 2014) I follow the products of leading companies for a few years and every year products exported in the same format with minor cosmetic changes like new colors.

No way to buy bathing suit not robbed. If I can't find something I like in Israel I just save my money and buy it abroad when I get there.

I agree with you that less critical water haitum in internal layers, (and I don't believe there's any garment except rubber suit divers waterproof) but when the middle layer wet, I prefer it to be and make synthetic?

On the link you gave is the explanation of the material itself, not just criticizing.

If I don't find an alternative for middle layer soon light heats with a hoodie, you probably buy the tramovol although it is not a new product.

1) when buying a product from money, you want to know that you have received a new product. Many times over time upgrading. models. The store must sell new merchandise. As far as I'm concerned synthetic jacket who sat three years Aaron has lost three years of his life, and paid another price. Friend, there is justification which is a disgrace. The only reason to buy older models is price, and shachnot offers 15% discount is a red herring. When was the last time you saw a coat upside down at least 50% The country simply stuck 30 years (sometimes rightly). They think they can sell the customer everything would be in stock. So we have goods from three years ago? 15% can be given to the customer to think he won them all. The problem, today the customer he could get to the store and he knows what he wants. He knows that sometimes sell him things. The shops, rather than be professionals in the field and let the catalog with the best options etc, they prefer to stay behind with equipment that they will mbachintan the most money (a function of the likelihood that a customer will buy with high price)

Once again

Climbing and hiking is different.

I can tell you that if blood was thru hiker established store, it was in terms of start up. I am willing to guarantee that no one who knows what is known thru hike.

2) there's no way to buy an outfit that won't Rob you're hurting yourself here, and it's legitimate. Everyone is scared. It is important to emphasize that technical garment is not a product. Technical outfit he cheated. That he sees only good choppers (I love those mistaken for and buy trendy product technical garment). About what it's like you take a tape measure. Write everything. Before you buy-test on the network people with similar characteristics and buy what they buy. As the treatment of phobia psychiatrist (sorry it's image, but that's what I say to those who say "no way", and then heard a lot worse that someone said "no way" and made them as big), you get used to it slowly and only earn. Go to other moves. They measure what you want. Everyone will be happy to help you. We all want to get rewarded.

Not good? You lose $ 20, shipping back for credit or replacement.

3) audio, and personal preference. When the rules change. In this case, I was doing a survey of what climbers professionals do and doing the same thing, they sure did a study. When I went, I don't think there's anything approaching product capabilities of backwards coat. Better insulated with respect to weight, incredibly compressed (which is critical in small bags), it is very easy. The only problem is moisture. Unless you are entering a 5 hours, no problem with. Above it, the outer layer is completely absorbed by the water. These penetrate. Then comes the upside down or synthetic. If it earned a little synthetic insulation, but you'll be freezing because the water inside.

Until here.

arthur  
#11 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2014 3:03:28 AM(UTC)
arthur

Rank: Newbie

Groups: חבר
Joined: 5/15/2016(UTC)
Posts: 491

[Quote = avimeron; 577947]

[Quote = arthur; 577944]

[Quote = avimeron; 577941]

Arthur

If you go by the products of the land you on antler eating S'mores?

In Israel, at least in the field of trips (don't know, although I think besides the last layer, there is no difference between the approaches) the supply is low, low, likely from previous years, it is likely inflated priced and will probably sell you what you don't need

As long as there is no laboratory data all data of the companies is marketing gimmick

Eventually, even make it resistant to marketing gimmick. As dusk fell and the rain will be difficult conditions wet, no matter what. Apkyavit way to prevent that this quality ardshl mountains probably have. The waterproofing layers less critical, unless you're going to deal with heavy sweat, then those cases synthetic material may be preferable. Like RAB XENON

Encourage you to get help from the Forum members in the process of importation of such products. 90% of the time, even if you pay both customs and pp, it will cost less than buying at a store. ו99% receive a product better.

Indeed, the country has limited selection but there are some stores that sell quality equipment. Don't post here can not say names I post someone. Incidentally I disagree if an item from a collection of one or more back must say that is not good. (What do you lachnviot in the country "to get rid" of quality products because people who dislike their high price and thus leaves a State that was end product in 2009 no longer so a hit in 2014) I follow the products of leading companies for a few years and every year products exported in the same format with minor cosmetic changes like new colors.

No way to buy bathing suit not robbed. If I can't find something I like in Israel I just save my money and buy it abroad when I get there.

I agree with you that less critical water haitum in internal layers, (and I don't believe there's any garment except rubber suit divers waterproof) but when the middle layer wet, I prefer it to be and make synthetic?

On the link you gave is the explanation of the material itself, not just criticizing.

If I don't find an alternative for middle layer soon light heats with a hoodie, you probably buy the tramovol although it is not a new product.

1) when buying a product from money, you want to know that you have received a new product. Many times over time upgrading. models. The store must sell new merchandise. As far as I'm concerned synthetic jacket who sat three years Aaron has lost three years of his life, and paid another price. Friend, there is justification which is a disgrace. The only reason to buy older models is price, and shachnot offers 15% discount is a red herring. When was the last time you saw a coat upside down at least 50% The country simply stuck 30 years (sometimes rightly). They think they can sell the customer everything would be in stock. So we have goods from three years ago? 15% can be given to the customer to think he won them all. The problem, today the customer he could get to the store and he knows what he wants. He knows that sometimes sell him things. The shops, rather than be professionals in the field and let the catalog with the best options etc, they prefer to stay behind with equipment that they will mbachintan the most money (a function of the likelihood that a customer will buy with high price)

Once again

Climbing and hiking is different.

I can tell you that if blood was thru hiker established store, it was in terms of start up. I am willing to guarantee that no one who knows what is known thru hike.

2) there's no way to buy an outfit that won't Rob you're hurting yourself here, and it's legitimate. Everyone is scared. It is important to emphasize that technical garment is not a product. Technical outfit he cheated. That he sees only good choppers (I love those mistaken for and buy trendy product technical garment). About what it's like you take a tape measure. Write everything. Before you buy-test on the network people with similar characteristics and buy what they buy. As the treatment of phobia psychiatrist (sorry it's image, but that's what I say to those who say "no way", and then heard a lot worse that someone said "no way" and made them as big), you get used to it slowly and only earn. Go to other moves. They measure what you want. Everyone will be happy to help you. We all want to get rewarded.

Not good? You lose $ 20, shipping back for credit or replacement.

3) audio, and personal preference. When the rules change. In this case, I was doing a survey of what climbers professionals do and doing the same thing, they sure did a study. When I went, I don't think there's anything approaching product capabilities of backwards coat. Better insulated with respect to weight, incredibly compressed (which is critical in small bags), it is very easy. The only problem is moisture. Unless you are entering a 5 hours, no problem with. Above it, the outer layer is completely absorbed by the water. These penetrate. Then comes the upside down or synthetic. If it earned a little synthetic insulation, but you'll be freezing because the water inside.

Until here.

1. me too angry to see old collections products in stores. But the situation in Israel that there is no choice. The stores want to get good quality products and a high price so high that only people who buy the product and making it difficult to get rid of all the stock in the current year. I have no problem buying a last collection coat if I know he is kept in good conditions. Why say the stores are stuck 30 years? I think it's really wrong.

If you open the store on long walks so designated would be a unique store, but don't think she succeeds so our business market. Most mountains are stores selling supplies also recruits or weekend. I think a person who knows what they're doing can assemble his equipment set for a long hike than exists in the country and the Internet Add-ons. All the olteraliit stuff really special exclusive only available on the network.

2. do you really think I insist to take because I want to make it look on me?

I came with all the layers should work with the garment system and checks can I wear with easy system, I get with my helmet and helmet fit, f about climbing harness fit, sew clothes that raise the bottom when I raise my hands in the air, etc. etc. Believe me, I insist.

3. I also love long walks and travel quite a lot and I agree with you that currently not trivial material capabilities, isolation or collapsing backwards. But there are terms sometimes synthetic jacket would be better. It is not always about the pouring rain or storm.

But I'm not hooked on synthetic, if you know a store that sells high-quality, easy reverse with coat with hood.

avimeron  
#12 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2014 12:43:26 PM(UTC)
avimeron

Rank: Newbie

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Joined: 5/15/2016(UTC)
Posts: 11

[Quote = arthur; 577948]

[Quote = avimeron; 577947]

[Quote = arthur; 577944]

[Quote = avimeron; 577941]

Arthur

If you go by the products of the land you on antler eating S'mores?

In Israel, at least in the field of trips (don't know, although I think besides the last layer, there is no difference between the approaches) the supply is low, low, likely from previous years, it is likely inflated priced and will probably sell you what you don't need

As long as there is no laboratory data all data of the companies is marketing gimmick

Eventually, even make it resistant to marketing gimmick. As dusk fell and the rain will be difficult conditions wet, no matter what. Apkyavit way to prevent that this quality ardshl mountains probably have. The waterproofing layers less critical, unless you're going to deal with heavy sweat, then those cases synthetic material may be preferable. Like RAB XENON

Encourage you to get help from the Forum members in the process of importation of such products. 90% of the time, even if you pay both customs and pp, it will cost less than buying at a store. ו99% receive a product better.

Indeed, the country has limited selection but there are some stores that sell quality equipment. Don't post here can not say names I post someone. Incidentally I disagree if an item from a collection of one or more back must say that is not good. (What do you lachnviot in the country "to get rid" of quality products because people who dislike their high price and thus leaves a State that was end product in 2009 no longer so a hit in 2014) I follow the products of leading companies for a few years and every year products exported in the same format with minor cosmetic changes like new colors.

No way to buy bathing suit not robbed. If I can't find something I like in Israel I just save my money and buy it abroad when I get there.

I agree with you that less critical water haitum in internal layers, (and I don't believe there's any garment except rubber suit divers waterproof) but when the middle layer wet, I prefer it to be and make synthetic?

On the link you gave is the explanation of the material itself, not just criticizing.

If I don't find an alternative for middle layer soon light heats with a hoodie, you probably buy the tramovol although it is not a new product.

1) when buying a product from money, you want to know that you have received a new product. Many times over time upgrading. models. The store must sell new merchandise. As far as I'm concerned synthetic jacket who sat three years Aaron has lost three years of his life, and paid another price. Friend, there is justification which is a disgrace. The only reason to buy older models is price, and shachnot offers 15% discount is a red herring. When was the last time you saw a coat upside down at least 50% The country simply stuck 30 years (sometimes rightly). They think they can sell the customer everything would be in stock. So we have goods from three years ago? 15% can be given to the customer to think he won them all. The problem, today the customer he could get to the store and he knows what he wants. He knows that sometimes sell him things. The shops, rather than be professionals in the field and let the catalog with the best options etc, they prefer to stay behind with equipment that they will mbachintan the most money (a function of the likelihood that a customer will buy with high price)

Once again

Climbing and hiking is different.

I can tell you that if blood was thru hiker established store, it was in terms of start up. I am willing to guarantee that no one who knows what is known thru hike.

2) there's no way to buy an outfit that won't Rob you're hurting yourself here, and it's legitimate. Everyone is scared. It is important to emphasize that technical garment is not a product. Technical outfit he cheated. That he sees only good choppers (I love those mistaken for and buy trendy product technical garment). About what it's like you take a tape measure. Write everything. Before you buy-test on the network people with similar characteristics and buy what they buy. As the treatment of phobia psychiatrist (sorry it's image, but that's what I say to those who say "no way", and then heard a lot worse that someone said "no way" and made them as big), you get used to it slowly and only earn. Go to other moves. They measure what you want. Everyone will be happy to help you. We all want to get rewarded.

Not good? You lose $ 20, shipping back for credit or replacement.

3) audio, and personal preference. When the rules change. In this case, I was doing a survey of what climbers professionals do and doing the same thing, they sure did a study. When I went, I don't think there's anything approaching product capabilities of backwards coat. Better insulated with respect to weight, incredibly compressed (which is critical in small bags), it is very easy. The only problem is moisture. Unless you are entering a 5 hours, no problem with. Above it, the outer layer is completely absorbed by the water. These penetrate. Then comes the upside down or synthetic. If it earned a little synthetic insulation, but you'll be freezing because the water inside.

Until here.

1. me too angry to see old collections products in stores. But the situation in Israel that there is no choice. The stores want to get good quality products and a high price so high that only people who buy the product and making it difficult to get rid of all the stock in the current year. I have no problem buying a last collection coat if I know he is kept in good conditions. Why say the stores are stuck 30 years? I think it's really wrong.

If you open the store on long walks so designated would be a unique store, but don't think she succeeds so our business market. Most mountains are stores selling supplies also recruits or weekend. I think a person who knows what they're doing can assemble his equipment set for a long hike than exists in the country and the Internet Add-ons. All the olteraliit stuff really special exclusive only available on the network.

2. do you really think I insist to take because I want to make it look on me?

I came with all the layers should work with the garment system and checks can I wear with easy system, I get with my helmet and helmet fit, f about climbing harness fit, sew clothes that raise the bottom when I raise my hands in the air, etc. etc. Believe me, I insist.

3. I also love long walks and travel quite a lot and I agree with you that currently not trivial material capabilities, isolation or collapsing backwards. But there are terms sometimes synthetic jacket would be better. It is not always about the pouring rain or storm.

But I'm not hooked on synthetic, if you know a store that sells high-quality, easy reverse with coat with hood.

Arthur

I'm glad you respond the way you react. I haven't seen in a long time in the forum comments and debate. Thank you for that.

1) to business, said stores are stuck in the back because the market approach (look at how it works in Europe and the US). It has a place. Not to mention stores like ricochet and travel. Everything they sell order from fifth aliexpress.

One of the problems of synthetic jacket that is the length. Is not ultra long as. Therefore if Letterman had sex for three years, you lose three years of his life. No matter what. It's not about if it is saved (no idea BTW, don't always know better than to cram and stuff), synthetic work.

2) the simpler mtmcatat store has easy tours than anyone itmcata. Think how hard it is to get into the olteraliit hikers experienced in backpacking. Think about how much research they need to read online, products, comments, etc. Instead, if the country was in the interest of being professionals, there was also this little niche space. Then each Wolf had to find it for himself. When you sell a don't even know what that long hike except in the Israel National Trail (INT) is a problem of professionalism. Think even exos osprey bag, which is not even a case UL, sell the country on grounds that he was "gentle and easy"-importer said when I called him. When I told him that dozens of people with 4000 + miles, he said he didn't want to deal with problems and prefer to sell the bags. You see where we're stuck? Buy it here, in Israel, if they offer it. But we are stuck 30 years back.
Behind importers who are not willing to take responsibility and we want to do.

Therefore, the store of experienced will be a big difference. Everything will be indirect imports direct warranty against manufacturer. Invitation only as needed. The client needs to trust the seller this time because in this case is much more

3) thanks regarding clarification about what you want to measure. I think the mcrioth in the products you are looking for a lot of checking on the parameters that you said. I believe you don't look unusual and therefore find many forms and Kings with the same body structure, search. You can get to many Forum members have and see outerwear. BTW, I'd buy a hat and coat, much more and rsitili. If still not convinced you, also have stores of outerwear Colombia (can't believe it's what you want), and all sorts of small shops.

afix  
#13 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2014 1:36:24 PM(UTC)
afix

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AVI do you mean don't use synthetic and stored does not collapse losing ability with insulation.
avimeron  
#14 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2014 2:26:13 PM(UTC)
avimeron

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Synthetic material loses loft faster than. It feels especially users that much, but even if it lies unused. Bookmark lifetime much longer synthetic parable.

idanz  
#15 Posted : Friday, January 3, 2014 6:24:34 PM(UTC)
idanz

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Arthur, can come to measure reverse montbell's jacket size M. Without a hat. Agree on the orsitiliot.

arthur  
#16 Posted : Monday, January 6, 2014 12:52:13 AM(UTC)
arthur

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Thanks for idanz. What model of ontebl have?

If I get it of the hat-although it's pretty important. can I buy the Arcteryx Atom LT. Great coat.

idanz  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, January 7, 2014 3:20:23 PM(UTC)
idanz

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After the montbell Web site hunt seems U. L Down jacket

Buy a hat and coat on backwards. Preferred. About a dead bird-like. Doing the most innovative products, but you're paying a fortune for the brand.

arthur  
#18 Posted : Wednesday, January 8, 2014 1:07:00 PM(UTC)
arthur

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Age, not necessarily true-sends you a private message about this matter.
Thank you for the invitation.

I'm currently thinking about Cappuccino. Usually I'm so Hoodie Peru for all sorts of reasons.

I can live with the awkwardness of the easy Cappuccino. Unfortunately, lower participation.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 8, 2014 2:15:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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