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זמי1  
#1 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2014 6:30:03 PM(UTC)
זמי1

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I read over and over again and trying to glean more information that might contradict what seems obvious from port irresponsible to for.

Without clothes, without sufficient food and water, and to leave alone and in such conditions?

It's a pity to lose it.

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ofer  
#2 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:11:42 PM(UTC)
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Ma, it can happen to anyone of us. Nature can surprise even the most experienced bmanosim. All any of us think ten times before he decided to take a piece of equipment that hurt about his weight. It seems to us that we find the compromise deserves-but sometimes the reality strikes. How many times have we learned about sang we took the wrong decision? How many times out of a skin condition? The girl was very young and with little experience in stress conditions and him encountered was complex and complicated. Not sure I'd get out of it better.

Eli TheHiker  
#3 Posted : Sunday, January 12, 2014 9:25:16 PM(UTC)
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According to the article on point: "If Czech investigators said they found local newspaper Karo in Patagonia: they had no water or food, and looked at their clothes that they didn't prepare properly for the weather."

Assuming they don't throw the bags and clothing (as I've heard from other travellers in these storms when panic) so indeed they came unprepared, but I think even before poor olive harvest must hear the truth from the source that many times in newspapers or by word of mouth from officers things

tomeralmog  
#4 Posted : Monday, January 13, 2014 9:53:51 AM(UTC)
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Hey
Patagonia as you know everyone, could roll within hours, summer weather to merge.

Unfortunately, the Israelis do not understand it, and I didn't realize it at the time.

I got stuck in a snowstorm three days when I didn't have complete equipment in the puyehue, the portion of the equipment left in briluca.

It started in warm weather and rain became then a Blizzard request.

Fishing to the instability this month after what happened I got stuck.
Http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4078321, 00.html

Tomer
io_travel  
#5 Posted : Monday, January 13, 2014 10:23:02 AM(UTC)
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You can't trust the Ynet reports (or communication) to analyze the case seriously.

But anyway great tragedy and a great reminder to all of us. Heart with family and friends.

Edited by user Monday, January 13, 2014 11:37:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

גלילאו  
#6 Posted : Monday, January 13, 2014 12:01:50 PM(UTC)
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Agree with Ofer, an unfortunate!

Tomer, you have 2 questions.

1. Israelis don't understand it (and you're not understanding there) because not enough signposting or propaganda?

In other words, do you think is missing or that Israelis tend to "wash"

2. what driving Israeli travelers not met

Not traveled in South America, not familiar with the area.

I don't know if this unfortunate case officer used irresponsibly,

I'm serious because I'm curious to know.

Thank you

Jonathan2  
#7 Posted : Monday, January 13, 2014 2:49:54 PM(UTC)
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It's a sad story anyway, condolences to family and friends.

The description on ynet is confused and full of contradictions as well what not directly related to the event, and I hope that full details will be posted at some point (if anyone here has good information and I'd love to read authenticated).
Until then it is impossible to refer to what was or wasn't.

Want to comment on the questions above:
1. without specific reference to the rest, quite a few Israelis discover world tours only in South America, and lack a lot of experience--and sometimes also equipment, in particular with dealing with the weather sucks.

2. foreigners who meet the trails are generally experienced travellers who come to South America to explore on foot,
And many States, snow-capped mountain and more from Israel: they know how to deal with the cold and snow and equipped accordingly.

3. in terms of the weather-sometimes end a surprise (especially in Patagonia, in particular on the side), and rain forecast (there are many, and cancels trip) can turn to snow.
Actually she's caught in a storm not necessarily learn about some frivolous or contempt.
גלילאו  
#8 Posted : Monday, January 13, 2014 8:01:33 PM(UTC)
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Thanks for the explanation.

I hope there is enough information in the area also experienced ones, so even if it takes to close a certain reserve for a few days.

I understand that bpotogenia is a little difficult because major there, so that's really a problem.

HarmonicWave  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 12:04:32 AM(UTC)
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[Quote = Galileo; 578045]

Thanks for the explanation.

I hope there is enough information in the area also experienced ones, so even if it takes to close a certain reserve for a few days.

I understand that bpotogenia is a little difficult because major there, so that's really a problem.

No one closes a circuit to protect you from yourself. It doesn't work that way in many places, probably wasn't bad weather in South Africa nor predictable.

All the responsibility is on you, the traveler, to try to understand the limitations and the risks you take.

To do trekking in the mountains, in a remote area and experience. a recipe for trouble.

About the n-really hard to understand why the image bits information from ovint.

gaggag  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 12:28:15 AM(UTC)
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The unfortunate case have no details then explain over some WATCH Trek for those who don't know:

I went for 6/3/11. He basically Trek 3 days. Sunday arrival for entrance-a matter of 3-4 hours the Kings from the roof there with riinger's cabin.

Monday-day long and hard with her to La Paz at an altitude of 1600 meters and at least (as I recall) 1200 m ascent 500 reduction until roof. Tuesday-acamping of town about a half day of decline.

A bit about my experience of the Trek on day 2 is just very hard for me to take about 10 hours (and was in shape)-when the water through my darkness ended another in early fall, the guy who comes in with exhaustion at the camp he was vomiting and laxative. The day is just not good, what made us lose to chmma minutes the girl joining us that bit us. The pass is exposed to this day and it's just hard for everything.

We received information from a ariinger in the wrong entrance that said that within 3-4 hours we get to pass (I never made the Trek, maybe new) and of course it was very far from the reality of what made us all the descriptions above.

Start with the local village we haven't heard any special warnings about him.

About the case itself-I guess it happened somewhere on the second day by the Spanish amatiil description did come to camp and summoned help from the city. Still at least triple takes 3 hours to reach the camp and then another at least 4 hours to get to La Paz and then look for the travelling, which unfortunately has left her no chance.

What I couldn't figure out it would have (and I guess that was otherwise where would sleep?). If they had, then why didn't went travelling to him if she couldn't go futile or they had and it just crashed?

I can vouch for myself that I should definitely be more careful in exploring (and following long trip I get no compromise and invite TARPTENT in snowstorms!)

Find quality equipment, check in more exactly what the weather and take care.

גלילאו  
#11 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 1:25:06 AM(UTC)
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Harmonix,

Obviously, she's definitely all travellers, that regardless of anything.

I was going to close the teacher only if there are major regions except for the extreme Patagonia there is probably different.

I took the example of my trip in China, where closed (not once) reserved roads because of major dangerous.

(Just don't sell us tickets and the gates were closed).

One area had waited three days to lodge Trek because rain storms and landslides and boulders on the trail.

No New Zealand travelled but I heard that there's going to be closing. Maybe it's just in certain areas and perhaps inaccurate rumors.

Gaggag, great detail. It hardly slammed/normal area

Hope information sources in addition to the Rangers, for instance, to check with the staff at Hostels or something.

זמי1  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 11:12:48 AM(UTC)
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-To disagree.
Who goes to the track in the mountains should be equipped in every situation that could happen something that will keep him on the mountain for two days, and even offline.
Anyone who goes to that have having hot equipment, equipment, food and water for at least two days. No games alive.
Don't have to have a high risk as snow or ice, enough to go for fall and would sprain or break my habit, go astray, which no one will see you channel you must be prepared for.
Dengama September, my brother and I went to Blanc. In one of the sections, he went before, having hit a stone in the forehead and once even lost consciousness. It was about 1600 in the afternoon, an hour before sunset and the trail could be empty.
And it is a crowded trail running. Imagine what might have happened.
gaggag  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 11:45:13 AM(UTC)
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If I remember correctly the Trek appears in:Fauzi Trekking in the Patagonian Andes so that there is about ...

The hostel owner who felt his village before heading isn't because we received warnings.

Including for the avoidance of doubt:

The Trek is certainly not something special or unusual in the area. For that matter, peripheral Trek in Torres deal, Paine and spitting Travers/control (when I was) no different from him, on the contrary this rather short Trek compared to others, but in the mountains as the mountains everything can change.

About these kind of cases — perhaps the most experienced here in the Forum can give some tips for coping with these emergencies. The planning level as not to determine beforehand etc but given status as these guys and how they would deal with it can help.

Our condolences to mshhafa course.

Jonathan2  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 12:14:56 PM(UTC)
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I don't remember Monday as hard as that describes a roof (it's been since six years.)
But he doesn't differs from many other trekking in Patagonia and certainly not more difficult or dangerous of them,
Even vice versa. Is a short Trek and (relatively).

It's kind of hard to give tips for emergencies because there's never a "solutions".
In particular we have no idea what happened there.

Galileo-unpleasant to say,
But to hit that part of the game,
And everyone leaves the premises at his own risk.
In General, child-proofing like you describe is annoying (to me)
Hikers need to know to make correct, considerations
And mud which they enter.
גלילאו  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 3:51:35 PM(UTC)
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Jonathan,

I wrote at the beginning of course, certainly all the responsibility is on this, regardless of anything.

Neither do so through child proofing, but through local information that can save you aggravation and then the traveler makes his considerations.

Just to understand, if you're planning a trek and tell you that landslides and closed the park for a few days-out? I want to believe that.

Jonathan2  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, January 14, 2014 11:27:32 PM(UTC)
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I'm not in favor of breaking the law and therefore not go into the reserve,
The rest depends on situation.
If there is a danger that I understand and can evaluate the Nolan-get a decision one way or the other.
Dangers-obviously I wouldn't know to deal with and take the risk.
But the main thing is (to me) that I decide for me what my agent.

Anyway, I think that leaving no trip to indicate any impairment in judgment (or any inspectors if there) – at least according to fragments of information that we know right now.
גלילאו  
#17 Posted : Wednesday, January 15, 2014 12:24:43 PM(UTC)
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So we're kind of in the same approach.

Cozy day

S.K.  
#18 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2014 12:18:56 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = gaggag; 578057]

About these kind of cases — perhaps the most experienced here in the Forum can give some tips for coping with these emergencies. The planning level as not to determine beforehand etc but given status as these guys and how they would deal with it can help.

First it is unclear even now, what really happened there. From my experience, conditions can be difficult to store, keep in mind that the end of the Earth for all derivative implications.


The place is also known for its powerful winds which progressively and very difficult to cope. (If the winds knocked me on the ground (!) and a backpack is packed like a cardboard box was blank.)

Basic equipment like alternative sealing packing clothing, food is available, water, a tent, cooking equipment and are a necessity for anyone traveling in the area and number of days.
Emergency equipment as means for fires, or nylon comforter, signalling measures, etc. is necessary. But I think the hardest thing they proved their effectiveness is questionable. (The ability to fire these spirits and what the efficiency of the same terms how energy and heat lost to search cave for materials to start a fire and to preserve her?)

So my conclusion, and without knowing what happened there, he simply steps rememberto pour from and availability as the establishment of the tent that I guess is they have to wear all the clothes and get in the sack. Then you can start organizing for cooking food, maybe, check the lighting (subject to the above questions) and examining the situation and call for help.

I appreciate that what interests them, "get out of here fast." perhaps equipment or food shortage led them to the decision to keep going or perhaps lack of experience and lack of understanding of the seriousness of the situation had led them to the decision instead to hatmagn instead.

General message I want to convey, without a direct link to the unfortunate event tips
Each trip, a long, evaluations of the traveler in terms of basic equipment and emergency equipment will allow the traveler to both handle physical level mode and make informed decisions and judgment.
Once the presence of equipment that let traveling calmness and ability to complete mental and physical deficiencies like changing clothes in, eating something and maybe build a shelter and fire and thus allow the traveler to consider calmly step and a second time because the option of remain deprived of space, simply because she's not so bad.

Edited by user Monday, January 20, 2014 6:32:15 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

naty_h  
#19 Posted : Friday, February 7, 2014 5:16:05 PM(UTC)
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I know the area I was there over a year, know the weather isn't as good, and from what I know, there are no sudden changing weather but need to install order instability weather changes:

In 87 died similarly Amir Barkan & Burstein on the Villa Rica volcano near Puc?n saved, they climbed the unstable period, to tell if the air is stable or not enough low-pressure gauge then your interest, not irresponsibility, zanin is lack of familiarity with the conditions that exist in the area, and those things that imposes serious should know.

Anyone who wants to know more good weather is welcome to read the tutorial to propose and snowfall, and I allow myself to say that opens on March 25 weather course construction and ordered floating

A comprehensive course which will study in depth all weather rlontis the imposing climbs etc here is a link to suppliers:

Introductory meteorology 2014

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