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הלך  
#1 Posted : Sunday, May 25, 2014 8:09:31 PM(UTC)
הלך

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Hello everyone.

The a hotplate that is used today was discovered during my travels in the land of easy and reliable to my needs (mainly boiled water).

Some numeric data: weighs 60 grams, the weight of a full tank (contains approximately 220 g) 363 g, and its contents is enough for about 22 rtachot of 0.85 litres under optimal conditions.

(The 0.85-liter Kettle used me, as also the bottle used me for drinking and heating the bag).

Boil time of the amount above, under optimal conditions, less than four minutes.

The relatively easy, since you can store a hotplate in the kettle.

The two main drawbacks: see p98

A. availability of alternative containers along the route (in Israel and abroad, I began to think about overseas routes.)

B. the empty balloon weighs 133 grams, and large volume (as far as I know, you cannot find the country 110 g containers).

In light of the above, please ask and learn about alternatives that run on gasoline or alcohol:

Whether you prefer alcohol on the mezzanine, or vice versa, of course, and if so why?

Have I left out to get one of the above substances during multi-day itinerary?

Is there a means to allow use of other materials?

What weight the measure itself and how much is required for performance (22 trachot of 0.85 litres water)?

How long does it take for boiled the amount of miles above in optimal conditions?

Thanks to respondents.

I would be happy if my attention tsbo additional considerations, which are unknown to me.

Sponsor
Jonathan2  
#2 Posted : Sunday, May 25, 2014 9:49:25 PM(UTC)
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The nziniia is always more cumbersome to use than the blowtorch often consider.
I use already 4 years in bnziniia.
I never had trouble finding fuel (usually gasoline cars use).

Look at the websites of manufacturers in nzignot on the weights.
Mine weighs something like 400 g (dry!) including gasoline tank of 600 ml, there are lighter models.
Unfinished on fuel dispenser amounts. Double old and I burn a little less than a gallon of gasoline in six days in the cold and rain.

The advantages are clear: gasoline, strong and stable flame (easy to cook and even three and four), no matter of containers of depleting and must carry the rest of the trip.
Some models allow cooking-whatever works for stove fuel (at least in my experience).

Cons: tricky to operate. In case of malfunction should know what you're doing, and good hands. Suitable for equipment freaks who love to fuck.
Dry weight is large, relative to the gas burner (not to mention a oalia).
(Point out that failures are rare, and usually with only old sonziniia started after several years of using intanisby)

I don't know of anything that works on petrol and alcohol.
These are very different fuels (energy, temperature and press the burn etc) then I doubt there is anything like that.
Specific models have a nzignot that you can run them with a gas cylinder, but are built in, and I don't know if they're good or not.

Someone else should write here on oeliot.
naty_h  
#3 Posted : Sunday, May 25, 2014 11:38:07 PM(UTC)
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The MSR's bnznia was in the ' 80s hit the revolutionary advantages:

Possibility of using gasoline or kerosene, fuel availability, potentially increasing the pressure in the fuel tank by a special pump that can overcome the thinness of air problems and so on.

Now forming additional solutions for Coleman, also a message here on the Forum.

Oalia is basically an easy to operate but do not choeliot pressure vessels so they are not effective in heights

The disadvantages are obvious and required size.

About stove fuel containers cannot be moved in flight.

The correct answer in this is the correct answer:

Which track how high some weight?

Depends where you go away they give additional answers.

הלך  
#4 Posted : Monday, May 26, 2014 8:10:17 AM(UTC)
הלך

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Jonathan and, thank you very much for the detailed answer.

The tzptam many considerations I never thought about them.

Try first to focus to help you and other respondents, to help me (and incidentally smarter all readers):

Operational simplicity-substantive point. Personally, I need a simple system and as fast as possible.

-Faults. Threshold requirement for me is reliability of the means (probably'd be hard-pressed to fix problems).

Cooking-the main use that I do on a hotplate is for boiling water (for tea, purifying, heating, melting food makers such as soup or Orchid (found that appropriate additions to these packets provide the proteins
And I need carbohydrates). Also, I suppose that in the future you will be able to find ready-made vegetarian dishes (I mean the dishes warm with melting water). The individual experiences a serious cooking area totaled oat porridge, and I gave them (what's the point of making porridge hot night of zero degrees at the serpent head there was thirst-garage if you later need to scrub the kettle of water frozen?).

Height-an important point which came naturally to me (before I ran into trouble on a hotplate operation elevations spectrum in Canaan). The first seems to them will be abroad at heights up to 3000 m European value.
Is a hotplate can function in these heights? What other alternatives Marsh?

As for using bnziniia-I think the most important information it also brought above, Jonathan, about simplicity and reliability, also calculating the weights is not in favour of this alternative. Bzniniia weight 400 grams, it is almost equivalent to a hotplate and gas tank full.


I would like to receive more information, especially about oholity, and a lot to learn about additional considerations which are not familiar to me.

Thank you to everyone.
sereje4ka1  
#5 Posted : Monday, May 26, 2014 4:24:26 PM(UTC)
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I use PAKAFEATHER choalia XL.
The disadvantages are:
Low intensity relative to the blowtorch
Weaker wind resistance
Fuel-less calorie dense, meaning more fuel tbzmaz gallon water.

Benefits:
Really easy and requires no balloon, you can always get exactly what you need.
Fuel availability everywhere and in every situation.
You can send the smallest plane fuel (back course)

So I use it for short trips and excursions on a bit and when I cook just for myself.
הלך  
#6 Posted : Monday, May 26, 2014 5:12:20 PM(UTC)
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Sergey, thanks a lot.

I found the chohliia YouTube:


A few questions, you have:

What kind of alcohol do you use?
(I realize that there are different types and different concentrations).

Where the alcohol overseas? At pharmacies? For writers

Did you have a problem using chohliia in different heights?

Do you know a problem using a hotplate at different heights?

Thank you.
sereje4ka1  
#7 Posted : Monday, May 26, 2014 5:38:30 PM(UTC)
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1. all alcohol except for mtnol (or toxic). I.e. ethanol, propanol and isopropyl alcohol.
2. at pharmacies and supermarkets. In Crete, for example, every village has a pharmacy and there is alcohol.
3. no tshmshti at an altitude above 2500 still.
4. what heights you want? From a certain height and temperature have a gas burner and gas.

הלך  
#8 Posted : Monday, May 26, 2014 7:53:09 PM(UTC)
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Sergey thank you for the answers.

Approximately 3000 m elevation. Ohliia and a hotplate is used can run big?

Alcohol-it takes a certain concentration (realized that there are different concentrations, 70%, 90%, etc)?

Thanks again.
sereje4ka1  
#9 Posted : Monday, May 26, 2014 8:48:09 PM(UTC)
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Good questions.
The parameter affects you in this high temperature is. What temperature is it? I mean, I didn't phrase myself good at first. Set altitude and temperature.
I always use clean .. .threads in all colors 95% + that has me:-)

shaharellert  
#10 Posted : Monday, May 26, 2014 9:11:26 PM(UTC)
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Gone-too topic concerned the charge for the gas burner function. From experience with simple gas burner (litemax) problem due to elevation 5600 (haven't tried it yet:))

As Serhiy said fatal impact temperatures although LPG mixture of butane + propane should solve the problem-I've seen a lot of balloons.

Sergei hesitated a lot about beyond chalia. I really don't understand the benefits.

Weight – 45 g of a deal compared to 60/70 g of this gas burner quite negligible.

Productivity-you can adjust the amount of formaldehyde required for the trip and thus avoid the inevitable tug when it comes gas balloon. But when productivity and efficiency by burning alcohol-actually lower my profit?

naty_h  
#11 Posted : Monday, May 26, 2014 10:36:05 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = go; 579715] Sergey thank you very much for your answers.

Approximately 3000 m elevation. Ohliia and a hotplate is used can run big?

Alcohol-it takes a certain concentration (realized that there are different concentrations, 70%, 90%, etc)?

Thanks again.

Work at a height only lower anzilot whole thing is efficiency, as the figure so it simmers heights time costs due to smaller parts of oxygen in the air and it's my understanding that need more small gas flame flame relative sea level and therefore cooling effect effect, has advantages and disadvantages with each product, 4900 Peru alpamayo track bnznity was a problem not even mentioned we heights , Stove fuel facts at this height but too slowly.

Jonathan2  
#12 Posted : Monday, May 26, 2014 11:02:33 PM(UTC)
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A few comments:
1 MSR website has details of how some of their bnzignot and how they consume fuel. I use their bnziniia model dragonfly.
2. websites of all kinds of travellers (especially Americans) they claim that no choeliot problem of working at height,
If you have any specific experience would love to read about it.
3. I make and use chohliia (here on Earth, in the last few months) I saw that spirit indoor 70% just not burning, don't waste your time and money.
96% Burns OK, hard to find. Israel's pharmacies have 70% alcohol as disinfectant, but as mentioned, it's not.
4. temperature Flash intensity of ethanol is something like 17 degrees Celsius, so that should be a problem with using alcohol even in low temperatures.
5. the benefits of ohliia for gas burner: lighter, no extra weight of metal containers, no problem to carry exactly what you have, the cheaper, simpler fuel = less glitches (also nstamt the stove fuel orifice and then seals etc).
On the other hand the country is really hard to find.
6. turn windy daring to bbenzinity too (not to mention stove fuel). The solution to this is to find a safe place and use the windscreen.

And: there is no doubt that the biggest advantage of oeliot over all the rest is ... The silence. In nzignot and stove fuel makes noise deafening when cooking, and it's annoying.
klum  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, May 27, 2014 5:27:12 AM(UTC)
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A few comments:
-95% alcohol available in the country easily with dental Depot and others (equipment for dental mirpoth) costs about 30 per gallon they also ship.
Dawn, there's no great advantage by chalia, the difference is in the front I gas chale uses a 300-CC bottle (like cough syrups, for example, the "secure") on medium to his size advantage against a sloppy gas tank has a meaning.
True, the wind shield chalia has more meaningful than another form of cooking.
Go-I would advise you to look at the CALDERA of TRAIL DESIGNS get their videos and have explanations for all kinds of cooking options with their products, I purchased the TI-TRI.
Gave me the option of cooking on wood that was at first seems a negligible option so it becomes clear to me that a great option tree has everywhere, even in the desert (it doesn't take much--dried roots of harnesses, etc.), a minimalist in the cone which is the windshield and on the pot and scars a fire thanks to the floor space titanium.
Besides, long walks, you can always throw the case out of the Phuket 60 rocket-as backup.
shaharellert  
#14 Posted : Tuesday, May 27, 2014 7:51:11 AM(UTC)
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Klum-liter on average can boil with 300 מ״ל ethanol 95%?
klum  
#15 Posted : Tuesday, May 27, 2014 8:17:38 AM(UTC)
nahum

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900 ml I boil about 15 ml alcohol saw a YouTube recommendation to dilute the alcohol 20%-water it lowers the height of the flame.
BTW, the alcholia of CALDERA replaced the more massive STARLYTE alcoholic and (institutions to close excess alcohol)-20 $.
Allow the by use acetone (Yes, such a cut went under).
sereje4ka1  
#16 Posted : Tuesday, May 27, 2014 9:32:35 AM(UTC)
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I also exported 20 to 30מל/liter, depending on temperature and wind.

הלך  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, May 27, 2014 9:54:01 AM(UTC)
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Sergei dawn annual Jonathan anything, thank you for all the information, recommendations and links-I went to everyone and treat every point I uploaded later.

(If I understood that nothing's Caldera http://www.traildesigns.com/stoves/caldera-ti-tri and this Dragonfly of Jonathan http://www.cascadedesign...oking/dragonfly/product?)


I deleted that comment, and it's going to be long, divided it into several parts.


Weight/volume performance/productivity


If I understand it correctly any data mentioned above, as well as the manufacturer of the chohliia of Sergey bnziniia, Jonathan, and the data collected using a hotplate used me (kovea)

After calculating the parasitic weight and volume estimate, reached the following insights (hope not wrong):


A. as mrtiachim a small amount during the itinerary, so you should use chohliia.

B. as mrtiachim more, reduces the weight of chohliia due to the volume of alcohol, and the feasibility of using a hotplate (crossing the bar opens a balloon).

C. as mrtiachim several times bigger every day (coffee breaks), so you should use a hotplate (because IM use and speed of implementation).

D. as worse conditions (temperature, low), and require greater energy amount to boil, diminishing profitability using alcoholiia, increases the feasibility for using a hotplate (due to its effectiveness against the chohliia), and probably also increased profitability using bnziniia (understand Jonathan standing in that wind-nziniia, hope I got it right).


(Note: this assumes you understand the words, and greater than below right: ambient temperature, water temperature in the kettle, and the effects of stress affect everything. If I put it wrong, I'd love to have a correction).

With regard to volume;

E. as aspiring to boil slightly, benefiting users of chohliia and bnziniia from volume smaller parasites (small bottle).

And as aspiring to boil more, great bottles, volume auillo volume gas tank remained intact.

7. in the last part of the journey, see p98 issues still stand the empty container's volume, while the other animals that avoids can crush the empty bottles.


Far as to relative weight/volume/throughput, do things, or went completely lost?

Edited by user Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:05:37 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

klum  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, May 27, 2014 9:54:43 AM(UTC)
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The cone of CALDERA in my opinion, one of the most successful developments in the field (without a hoot about glory of the splinter shoizeris teeth in Pocket).
הלך  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:24:52 AM(UTC)
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Continued comment:

An important issue is the availability of various fuels.

The first solution is of course fundamental study of the various fuels along the way.

The other solution might be ה"רב-means" the delki products offer (if misunderstood, dragonfly can operate using gas, gasoline and diesel fuel, while the caldera can operate using alcohol, wood and ... Any solid fuel).

A third solution is the solution: President of two different measures-as primary and offer nothing. However, in my opinion, at least for travellers arriving to boil a quantity justifying balloon carrier (s), you should choose backup, ohliia, and vice versa. This is because that can make oeliot easy and small size, carry a small bottle that can collapse and, if necessary, to ashlichm in the immediate area, for zero cost. Created and need to use backup choaleit, a small amount of alcohol sufficient to satisfy the needs until arrival to purchase (a purchase is gas or tank; olcohol).



Edited by user Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:32:12 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

klum  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:44:37 AM(UTC)
nahum

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Bring tangible example:
Soon I'm going to chhodshis to the Pyrenees.
I don't really have any desire to find balon everywhere or no village or another? With no or anything or anything? Sunday-all closed, etc
Thus I leave with 400 CC of alcohol and can use wood (solid fuel is not a good solution-soot and smelly) plus take my Phuket-waht you know.
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