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stardust  
#1 Posted : Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:01:56 PM(UTC)
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Here

With only a few days ago, two Israeli hikers were murdered in Peru.

Too bad about it.

And it happens when I put out programs to the region in the coming weeks.

What is your opinion?

Edited by user Friday, October 17, 2014 12:59:12 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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io_travel  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, October 15, 2014 2:41:31 PM(UTC)
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Starry,

I'm not going to happen. Everything is very fresh and more informations are updated all the time, I'm not sure that your is accurate. The main thing that has been clear is that first of all a terrible tragedy for the families. Then about the case itself I especially it is bowed his head.

About the trip you're planning, I don't think it should stop. Just to serve you and all of us, a reminder (event type) power of nature in these areas. Power that brings her crazy side views and experiences a considerable danger, too.

Like all Trek, you will have to make adjustments. Mainly to check the weather, the offenses to listen to their physical condition, etc.

If any difficulty or if you recognize there's a tangible danger (as in the case of classic storm engulfed the area)-you need to make the right decision.

It's important for me to emphasize: this is not a criticism in a storm in the case I have no idea if any warnings at all.

Keep plan as usual. Continue to be aware of the dangers. You study yourself again and again that there is no escape but to change plans on the ground — even at the cost of island. Take you days to spare won't be tight and a decision is wrong, and so increase the chances since completing the route even in case of delay. And ... Hope for the best.

Edited by user Wednesday, October 15, 2014 3:40:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

imtl  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, October 15, 2014 3:18:30 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = stardust; 582019]

Here

With only a few days ago, two Israeli hikers were murdered in Peru.

Too bad about it.

And it happens when I put out programs to the region in the coming weeks.

What is your opinion?

Update

The fatalities (not just the Israelis) were murdered in several areas of North Central Nepal. The Annapurna area (Thorong la) from Fu and Mustang.

Knowing the area, especially snowstorms as described here is not there now. Don't know about alerts. But The storm cyclone storm that had its tail also hit Nepal. A very rare event in itself. And I suppose that in the end, Shaw or some collapse in snow after the storm.

In both cases, these omissions! The death toll (now called ש16) including Israelis. My guess is they in Annapurna.

The area is the zone included difficult topographical pass for travellers so the popularity. And the storm has precursors as well as the danger of avalanches after the storm. I'm trying to think where a serious risk an avalanche and right now all I can think of is the increase to the high camp because of ECOLAND and/or apas drop towards the octint and Kali gandaki. Wait and see.

Why can't people in villages or guesthouses before Paz? A question of having to give her.

This is an area that 99.9 percent of the visitors sleep in tents and motels and guesthouses. Therefore, there was a default. I have no doubt.

You have nothing to worry about. These things happen but are rare and no doubt without knowing all the details of bad luck side end hard in the middle of a very busy tourist season (October) also had serious omissions of irresponsible or simply guides hikers don't give a shit. And that's a recipe for disaster.

Eyal

Edited by user Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:16:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

imtl  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, October 15, 2014 5:53:00 PM(UTC)
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"Hilik Magnus, an expert in locating and rescuing hikers, recounted the events. Two groups came together to high tea house, over 5,000 meters from sea level. One group decided she stays overnight there because of the weather and a second group decided to proceed to the next point, only four hours away. This is a very big effort and went in a landslide. The second group, which started only in the morning, saw the avalanche and has continued to call for help. The group called 911, authorities in this time in extracting and transporting the casualties. Some people are traumatized, "said.

stardust  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, October 15, 2014 6:49:59 PM(UTC)
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I don't think my plans changed due to this disaster. It seems like a rare event and not typical.
But as Gail wrote, we tend sometimes to forget how powerful can be the one to make me sure,
And I hope others, regard with AWE doubled and tripled.

About the disaster itself, according to the number of persons, more than 150, it doesn't seem like the case of a small group that is underway in defiance of warnings
But as an event that caught everyone off guard. Days, maybe hours, say.

imtl  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, October 15, 2014 7:16:00 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = stardust; 582026]

I don't think my plans changed due to this disaster. It seems like a rare event and not typical.
But as Gail wrote, we tend sometimes to forget how powerful can be the one to make me sure,
And I hope others, regard with AWE doubled and tripled.

About the disaster itself, according to the number of persons, more than 150, it doesn't seem like the case of a small group that is underway in defiance of warnings
But as an event that caught everyone off guard. Days, maybe hours, say.

In October, small groups out there. It comes with hundreds of people on a daily basis that inundate the region. When I was a few years ago, in early November were approximately 150 people in La when I got there. This is the most popular Trek in Nepal and one of the most popular in the world.

I think what you wrote in the first paragraph is important. All the best.

imtl  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, October 15, 2014 8:05:20 PM(UTC)
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Now reporting (8)

Jan. 29: Annapurna, 21 3. 5 dead around Pu (slightly outside the Annapurna Trek). And three Nepali farmers.

Talking about 30 bodies after the pass to octint. If the numbers are correct, it is a major player in human disaster this country has known and hiking trails in the world.

Report reading and cross-referencing information so 4 touchy, including an already confirmed killed by Israel Embassy and the Foreign Ministry, killed on Tuesday during the storm and landslides because the snow that came later.

Therefore, in the end. Whether because of wrong decisions? It is not known at the moment.

I also read a report having 5 persons at the camp would of daolgiri (West of Annapurna). Even there it's going to be difficult to extract. This is a very isolated area not accessible. If they are damaged in a storm so likely not return alive that just really hard to get there. Sad. As one experienced serious storm in daolgiri for almost 15 hours when you get stuck or hit there again, you really only. Just bleak.

Edited by user Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:45:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

imtl  
#8 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:33:07 AM(UTC)
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Quote from Israeli's used:

"We were the last group left Monday afternoon for the Summit, despite everyone's warnings. When we arrived the only ל'פס (the track area) started, we went for about four hours until the next settlement, she recovers. "Other Israelis and tourists who were there left us and went on Tuesday morning. Unfortunately some of them were in the end. "

Quote from a relative who got the trek with the oncoming storm reporting:

"They said I was two days walk from the Summit, see starting end and decided not to continue. She said the pair told her that many Israelis were convinced as fast as them. "They tried to persuade other Israelis there coming down from the mountain, but the Israelis refused. They asked them identifying information so that they can move to the Embassy for safety, but, also, they refused to do so. Witnesses said they finally descended – then they learned of the avalanche.

What's left to say? ...

Edited by user Thursday, October 16, 2014 11:14:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

naty_h  
#9 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 12:56:13 PM(UTC)
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Just some conclusions and much:

The world's first weather changes and severe rate: NASA announced that the hottest month since measurements started in 1880 as a result of the heat present in the oceans dates generated in storms in September, began to go in October even Annapurna was considered to be a great time.

The second conclusion is that we need to understand much better weather than in the past, especially to understand the terms and conditions of the storm drag, big death toll proves that many are caught off guard when the surprised even those countries where snow behavior sells only to implement this stuff sells their countries due to an incorrect assumption that things are different in Nepal.

This problem is called the concept problem in Nepal in October no snowstorms and landslides this assumption is incorrect should treat the terms as they are and treat seasonal history because it varies.

The third conclusion should understand better what are the risks that create Blizzard conditions to two major landslides are primary impairment tables have turned feet and more, and the other 30 percent or more gradient second set conditions and avalanche too.

The fourth and most important conclusion no rare or not typical weather changes and should treat it carefully to the weather and use Predictor AIDS local weather changes stuffs that amount of snow change the height from now all slammed certain difficult transitions than usual which would require a lot more observation and local methods stiot it is important to be attentive to what is happening and to make programs and sometimes need to know.

Edited by user Thursday, October 16, 2014 1:31:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

naty_h  
#10 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 1:08:04 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = imtl; 582022]

[Quote = stardust; 582019]

Here

With only a few days ago, two Israeli hikers were murdered in Peru.

Too bad about it.

And it happens when I put out programs to the region in the coming weeks.

What is your opinion?

Update

The fatalities (not just the Israelis) were murdered in several areas of North Central Nepal. The Annapurna area (Thorong la) from Fu and Mustang.

Knowing the area, especially snowstorms as described here is not there now. Don't know about alerts. But The storm cyclone storm that had its tail also hit Nepal. A very rare event in itself. And I suppose that in the end, Shaw or some collapse in snow after the storm.

In both cases, these omissions! The death toll (now called ש16) including Israelis. My guess is they in Annapurna.

The area is the zone included difficult topographical pass for travellers so the popularity. And the storm has precursors as well as the danger of avalanches after the storm. I'm trying to think where a serious risk an avalanche and right now all I can think of is the increase to the high camp because of ECOLAND and/or apas drop towards the octint and Kali gandaki. Wait and see.

Why can't people in villages or guesthouses before Paz? A question of having to give her.

This is an area that 99.9 percent of the visitors sleep in tents and motels and guesthouses. Therefore, there was a default. I have no doubt.

You have nothing to worry about. These things happen but are rare and no doubt without knowing all the details of bad luck side end hard in the middle of a very busy tourist season (October) also had serious omissions of irresponsible or simply guides hikers don't give a shit. And that's a recipe for disaster.

Eyal

imtl  
#11 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 3:14:26 PM(UTC)
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Another videotaped testimony of:

Http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4581010, 00.html

Many porterim are not usual in Annapurna urban life in high mountains and extreme weather. They used to trekking in the high season weather. Not all Nepali built for travel.

So trust as it guides, porters will excuse me, just a joke.

Teahouse owner as Guy notes, I guess since they describe they were already on their way to moctint (descent from apas) so it could be just some guy or two sitting on some AHL midway in the season. (Could be established there really tea house). You really expect him to care about now 20 people fell on him in the middle of a storm they weren't supposed to go out even when there is news of a storm coming???????????????

Don't sell me crap we didn't heard. Also high camp before Paz has 2 luxurious tea with all the amenities foreigners only and includes GPS phones. And they give weather updates every night and morning. Just bullshit and a responsibility. People took their destiny in their hands, no power and no idea what they're about. And here is the result. It really Angers Really.

And here's another one.

Http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4581025, 00.html

It was impossible to stay home because oxygen tea??????? Pretty sick.

Edited by user Thursday, October 16, 2014 3:52:09 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

naty_h  
#12 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 3:48:52 PM(UTC)
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Because some hundreds of missiles still more to say that people in the area:

The realization that little is going to be OK there storms in October.

Most people fall for it especially there was coverage Ecoles prediction five days ago but not accurate and I think in the end route calculation and may not understand the strength happened Blizzard that struck the mountains in order to understand it takes a lot of skill in the USA hadn't happened, India do not have a problem if the damage is in Nepal are not straining not only Nepal, but don't believe they have the look to the mountains to Kathmandu may barely Winiss, not really helping here requires a deeper understanding, but their aurest Nepal landslides have at all times not just something they are excited:

Https://www.facebook.com/groups/ExSportMeteo/

imtl  
#13 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 3:53:24 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = naty_h; 582046]

Because some hundreds of missiles still more to say that people in the area:

The realization that little is going to be OK there storms in October.

Most people fall for it especially there was coverage Ecoles prediction five days ago but not accurate and I think in the end route calculation and may not understand the strength happened Blizzard that struck the mountains in order to understand it takes a lot of skill in the USA hadn't happened, India do not have a problem if the damage is in Nepal are not straining not only Nepal, but don't believe they have the look to the mountains to Kathmandu may barely Winiss, not really helping here requires a deeper understanding, but their aurest Nepal landslides have at all times not just something they are excited:

Https://www.facebook.com/groups/ExSportMeteo/

Annually,

In particular they have Annapurna of great entries already in manang. So there were no excuses. People took a chance on their lives, and that's just sad. The word perceived what hundreds of people did to themselves.

naty_h  
#14 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 4:12:06 PM(UTC)
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Now I react not because I have anything to add to what you're saying but because what's obvious to a bad experience like you obviously lack experience.

Clearly that Poles are Ecoles alive in the snow, but they are not in their natural environment and are therefore not aware of other different environment require adaptation time.

Speaking of the word rare rare event makes the event to almost improbable event not happening.

Landslides have only have headsets and webcams all time everywhere necessarily only Blizzard also rocks and mud it is a very hilly areas, narrow trails don't have Blizzard, these events happen all the time and need to learn and be able to go where the people are adapting to different environment takes different times and always will be those who never adapt or reverse the crossover adjustment, congratulating the German other foreign Namaste. What really Say you think I'm Nepali.

I'm sure it wasn't lpolanim happening in Poland nor for Israelis in the Judea desert floods but perhaps I'm wrong, you can tell warning to try to move things as much as possible but in the end our ability to influence is always limited.

imtl  
#15 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 4:17:23 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = naty_h; 582048]

Now I react not because I have anything to add to what you're saying but because what's obvious to a bad experience like you obviously lack experience.

Clearly that Poles are Ecoles alive in the snow, but they are not in their natural environment and are therefore not aware of other different environment require adaptation time.

Speaking of the word rare rare event makes the event to almost improbable event not happening.

Landslides have only have headsets and webcams all time everywhere necessarily only Blizzard also rocks and mud it is a very hilly areas, narrow trails don't have Blizzard, these events happen all the time and need to learn and be able to go where the people are adapting to different environment takes different times and always will be those who never adapt or reverse the crossover adjustment, congratulating the German other foreign Namaste. What really Say you think I'm Nepali.

I'm sure it wasn't lpolanim happening in Poland nor for Israelis in the Judea desert floods but perhaps I'm wrong, you can tell warning to try to move things as much as possible but in the end our ability to influence is always limited.

I agree with you, and sadness.

Do you think chhalk to provide the certificate to Trek into the Park might have to force people (not about the Israelis actually) to do some study hours walking in the mountains?

The benefit of this exception and Nepali. I hope someone thinks of it himself there.

By the way, I apologize if someone killed a few minds or things that I wrote. I'm very sad and angry about the incident. My intentions are good.

Edited by user Thursday, October 16, 2014 4:31:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

imtl  
#16 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 4:42:47 PM(UTC)
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Additional information fragments that I collect.

The storm started around 6 a.m. and went and grew stronger. Initially as individual snowflakes, and soon a storm.

Now, since I know the crushing majority of people leave around 4 a.m. in the direction of the pass (which I completely unnecessary at the time, there has been a rumor for many years שב9 morning drill hard through the pass because of winds that like high vendor awaits with winds up to 9 a.m., and time, said conception???) so it's no wonder they came to pass at the beginning of the end. Why the hell you went through.

imtl  
#17 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 7:09:54 PM(UTC)
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naty_h  
#18 Posted : Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:39:43 PM(UTC)
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Pretty obvious local porters society etc. told them everything in order:

"The Union agencies pavilions engineered Pandey at Nepal Tourism interviewed for Reuters, and criticized the Government in the country," the Prime Minister is happy to take money from tourists but not doing anything for them. Now she should have to pay for weather forecasts and help to save the travelers.

Nepalese authorities are taking money for the Trek and pramit responsibility to close the path, not after something happens, but before that happens, some travelers already know enough to weather other than normal at Blizzard and a snowstorm Blizzard conditions to collapse etc?

One obviously didn't hear another traveler's tips if no official alerts warning closes, Zilla have any climb to Villa Rica in training actually not a bad idea at all the rules very clear how many visitors writing crampons axe equipment in suits, stop training agency in case a fall with ice axe at least basic technique is performed at the beginning of the snow-covered area and everything's fine.

I think travel should pass training workshop on weather and basic climbing course if demand in the forum too to organize something so basic in Spain in Torla on demand per capita price worth 60 Euro per person per day 2 days course costs EUR 120 EUR 180, who has serious learning lots of theoretical material and the end of affordable equipment experience Blizzard conditions weather types to collapse history of how snow plan safe passage to Rachael All went well so I think that I shall never suffer it might find itself or information required or necessary to decide on the basis of information or to move or to whoever knows and knows not know when and what should be allowed.

The above applies to anyone who is experiencing a Blizzard if I take myself back to February 28 this year, the day I went skiing at pormigal with Spanish family course that day was a Blizzard but the site remains open, and it was obvious where to surf and surfing safely in my first day at the site where possible and found the family suddenly turns into the wind to my area is caught but kept them at that moment.

Logical answer why I kept them at that moment I thought to stop conversions in my head but I decided that with kids who rule well, probably everything ...

The actual answer is lack of law didn't cancel the the herd instinct went as everyone else by the killer instinct.

The story has been told and therefore I understand the decision to continue

If the guide said to be fine so they must know, it's the thought that goes into traveling, so there has to be responsibility on the Government, the interests of the porters and the agencies they know clearly what good and know that if you stick in the region they might storm to stay there three or four days during the season, then they can wait more than another week to the next, the economic pressure on them to move against all odds.

Edited by user Thursday, October 16, 2014 8:47:22 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

chenav  
#19 Posted : Friday, October 17, 2014 9:18:05 AM(UTC)
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I think you're really, really, really wrong.

Teaching weather is fine for those who sit in front of synoptic and global models and want to know where the weather develops. That's not going to help the average traveler — even if this passes two-hour training-sitting in the evening in a cabin in a remote Valley and see what the best 500 m to Greece. If I understand true story I've seen in this case, the storm even the wrong professional contracts until the last few days, so how do you expect people to make better forecasts

Ditto regarding tutorial for in case of landslides and snow falls. Curbing the axe fall? Come on, as if that would help the average traveler Annapurna closest thing to hack has it's ldrman. Or do you also offer them to hang in there with personal AX just in case you didn't come? And crampons and harnesses?

Quote from traveling who brought up: "we were the last group left Monday afternoon for the Summit, despite everyone's warnings. When we arrived the only ל'פס (the track area) started, we went for about four hours until the next settlement, she recovers. "Other Israelis and tourists who were there left us and went on Tuesday morning. Unfortunately some of them were in the end. "

No need to fuss. There were warnings on Monday and people launched. And after the weather got bad turn anymore (although probably high end hasn't arrived), people again launched also on Tuesday. Against this training in weather models, and using ice axe won't help.

You can almost close the investigation Committee "in this quote. The say she might be overreacting and misleading, and not really throughout the warning was received. Firstly it sounds weird that I travelled Everest iiskamp I don't recall one village was completely cut off from emergency communications on a satellite phone, but say it really? so the solution is simply to improve communication systems in these huts and make sure they know to provide up-to-date weather forecast as normal Trek. And again, I really doubt it doesn't already.

Whoever stays in the hut with its warnings will be saved. Unequivocal. He may hang there for several days, it might be a short night for him on that end of the poop yaks to burn in the oven, he might be a little hungry after a week but it won't be life threatening.

There were a few "exit" points for travelers who still came to pass despite the weather. Tea House has a few km before the pass, and another right at the highest point, and I wonder whether it makes sense to require anpalim to ensure that such places can also be used as emergency huts such cases or not. Probably because it doesn't require too much groundwork (one-time transport emergency gear?).

Although you have to remember that people don't have to get there in the first place, but as evidence they were there all clergymen to descend quickly down despite the weather outside. This point too needs to improve Nepalese service and clarify the operators huts and tea this can't come back (assuming that's what indeed what happened). Clarification: it's not throwing that really, really, don't dismiss people responsible-that launched despite warnings. But should try to help them.

imtl  
#20 Posted : Friday, October 17, 2014 9:29:28 AM(UTC)
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"When I asked why people decided to go out if the weather was so bad. They told me there was a matter of lack-sees that everyone leave the track, then also.

I guess my luggage.

Further according to my predecessor in this thread. There is a very simple method to figure out what's up. Look out!!! A very large portion of testimonies indicate that the Ramblers launched despite the snow started, Ted, and provided that stringent thought to cross the pass before it gets worse. Well ... What's left to say after this?

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