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יובלש  
#41 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 7:56:19 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = 582100 imtl;]

[Quote = iobelsh; 582098] strengthening certain imtl's thesis about the nature of leisure travellers Annapurna
You can find right here in this forum.

I think 400-300 Israelis (at least!) going annually the Annapurna.

I estimate about 100 a year--going on a bit less in TMB Alta via 1.

Apparently, according to these numbers should be here Threading Annapurna "Monster"-300 pages. Where is it?

The TMB threads and Alta via cross the 70 pages and tens of thousands of views. See whoever goes out there and digging and investigating and preparing
Just like see lanaporna going with the guys "and" Saul did it last year, so can I. "

Even on popular treks as and venoaz or out Corsica you might do 20-10 Israelis a year there distinguished threads with lots of information.

And Annapurna? Nada!

It's not weather and reading weather maps that lack basic preparedness at all levels
Not taking gear (a British hiker who helped in the rescue said that people covered their heads with plastic sheets just like Hermon.)
Don't make physical and mental preparation is suitable and that dismal result.
Of course, the Nepalese authorities don't go here.

300-400 Israelis in years not even close to reality. High camp before she had torveng with me over 30 Israelis. And that's just one lonely day Annapurna. It comes in. The percentage in Annapurna is enormous compared to the size of our population.

So, it just reinforces what I said.

Where is everyone? Where their questions about what equipment to take and what physical preparation to do, Tel azekah yankale or stairs of Tilapia?

imtl  
#42 Posted : Saturday, October 18, 2014 8:05:12 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = iobelsh; 582101]

[Quote = 582100 imtl;]

[Quote = iobelsh; 582098] strengthening certain imtl's thesis about the nature of leisure travellers Annapurna
You can find right here in this forum.

I think 400-300 Israelis (at least!) going annually the Annapurna.

I estimate about 100 a year--going on a bit less in TMB Alta via 1.

Apparently, according to these numbers should be here Threading Annapurna "Monster"-300 pages. Where is it?

The TMB threads and Alta via cross the 70 pages and tens of thousands of views. See whoever goes out there and digging and investigating and preparing
Just like see lanaporna going with the guys "and" Saul did it last year, so can I. "

Even on popular treks as and venoaz or out Corsica you might do 20-10 Israelis a year there distinguished threads with lots of information.

And Annapurna? Nada!

It's not weather and reading weather maps that lack basic preparedness at all levels
Not taking gear (a British hiker who helped in the rescue said that people covered their heads with plastic sheets just like Hermon.)
Don't make physical and mental preparation is suitable and that dismal result.
Of course, the Nepalese authorities don't go here.

300-400 Israelis in years not even close to reality. High camp before she had torveng with me over 30 Israelis. And that's just one lonely day Annapurna. It comes in. The percentage in Annapurna is enormous compared to the size of our population.

So, it just reinforces what I said.

Where is everyone? Where their questions about what equipment to take and what physical preparation to do, Tel azekah yankale or stairs of Tilapia?

The preparations of the vast majority of people in Nepal (and I don't mean sarcasm or to rub wounds but really in fact net) they receive from a friend who did a year ago and notes in habad House in Kathmandu. And where the author got the information? Of course, another friend who did a year before. And where the information? Some slick wrote some nonsense on the travel book. It called for the hummus. In the East know what I'm talking about. I came across a lot of simple fly Thailand company (especially area March-April) that is on track and Chick doesn't know what to do even in Nepal. But mostly they come. Ask what? Annapurna Trek told them. What is this? Doesn't matter. Go go. Within 5 hours already have tickets to carry them and Porter pounds of equipment (especially sweets) Although allowed up to 20 pounds of gear. Well ... I will stop here because I just poisoned the atmosphere.

I'd like to point out that there are also very serious company and even met there a company who know this forum and equipment. They identified the case and approached my ULA Eli and I 15 v.p.'schecked out Was amusing. It's about two of 2000.

הלך  
#43 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 4:52:59 AM(UTC)
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Below is evidence of travel:

"There was no warning, we as sheep to the slaughter."

Http://www.nrg.co.il/onl...=1&cat=402&loc=1

(BTW, for the sake of the discussion between the two, and Yuval, travelling at a walking distance of 400. What is the yearly trip?)
imtl  
#44 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 7:53:51 AM(UTC)
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[Quote = go; 582108] below is evidence of travel:

"There was no warning, we as sheep to the slaughter."

Http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/633/989.html?hp=1&cat=402&loc=1

(BTW, for the sake of the discussion between the two, and Yuval, travelling at a walking distance of 400. What is the yearly trip?)

Giora, quote also the rest of what she said:

"Says Ron. Snowflakes to accumulate not made her worry about the opposite: "I said to my friend that's an experience you've never had to walk in the snow". Just at some point people began to realize that something was wrong, "suddenly it's become unbearable, you can't get around that our spirit was back. There was no way back. "

It's snowing outside. And you start to get to La Paz in the Himalayas? I thought this was an experience I never had. To walk in snow. Yes, an experience that never was. Do you have any idea what it's like to walk in the snow that falls on the way to La Paz? What the implications of that? How to deal with something wrong? No! Even if there was no end but only "snow". Do any of you know how to handle fresh powder snow that piled up? What is go in feet of soft snow? Don't have an hour to two hours. You have the whole day long and difficult trek with dealing with heights as well. Don't need end for serious danger of avalanches there. And fresh snow piled up so it is dangerous. One of them thought about it? Information about this? He has no idea what he's doing? No!

So warnings or not (and there are plenty of travellers say who warned them and they tried to convince others not to go on to pass and were willing to listen) that people see each other that launched what is going on and just didn't know right to assess whether there is a chance of danger and what the implications of what they see.

Namely, inexperience and lack of responsibility. It's all written argument here. You don't know the minimum base what you going to do? Don't do.

99.99% of the time it worked in Annapurna. Here one time and look at what.

And it was another good yearly if it really was. More like Haifa Mall during operations to full elimination for the winter.

Here is a picture from the base camp of Annapurna in her ת'ורונג (4400 feet) Israeli traveler photographed in the morning after the storm.

Edited by user Sunday, October 19, 2014 8:15:37 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

יובלש  
#45 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 8:12:16 AM(UTC)
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[Quote = go; 582108] below is evidence of travel:

"There was no warning, we as sheep to the slaughter."

Http://www.nrg.co.il/online/1/ART2/633/989.html?hp=1&cat=402&loc=1

(BTW, for the sake of the discussion between the two, and Yuval, travelling at a walking distance of 400. What is the yearly trip?)

Thanks for the link, left.

In between there's Elk discussion but agreement.

The link you gave strengthens what I said about the lack of preparation and you're on an important point in a convoy of 400 people.

Of course when you go solo but also when you go in a small group of 2-4 people, you need to check and verify the things yourself.

When you join a column of 400 going you just going with the lack of any belief that if all this is probably fine and definitely someone checked everything.

Incidentally, another quote from that shown at the beginning of the thread is quoted as saying that they decided "despite warnings" some writers here have emphasized this matter that is infuriating.

Now another Walker said there was no warning. Probably the only warning to some people and others just join the 400 series.

imtl  
#46 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 8:44:34 AM(UTC)
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Quote from the words of a British hiker who interviewed for BBC. Tsico what you want.

Mr Sheridan added: "My view is that this incident could have been prevented. I knew the weather forecast before I set off.

"Having spoken to my guide, who wasn't there but t standard Windows.obviously has been there, they say that the weight that the porters carry is so great that they leave behind as their own personal safety to lighten their load. That to me is an absolute disgusting folly.

"All they are doing is leading people to a certain death, and themselves.

"If someone had taken the responsibility just to stop people going up there, I'm sure the other fatalities would have been a lot less. They were herded up that mountain to their death, and something needs to be done to address those facts. "

יובלש  
#47 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:08:22 AM(UTC)
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[Quote = imtl; 582113]

Quote from the words of a British hiker who interviewed for BBC. Tsico what you want.

Mr Sheridan added: "My view is that this incident could have been prevented. I knew the weather forecast before I set off.

"Having spoken to my guide, who wasn't there but t standard Windows.obviously has been there, they say that the weight that the porters carry is so great that they leave behind as their own personal safety to lighten their load. That to me is an absolute disgusting folly.

"All they are doing is leading people to a certain death, and themselves.

"If someone had taken the responsibility just to stop people going up there, I'm sure the other fatalities would have been a lot less. They were herded up that mountain to their death, and something needs to be done to address those facts. "

"They were like a herd up the mountain to their deaths."

To say that people die because they don't know how to read weather maps

That's like saying my name put that out for a stroll in the Judean desert on the day of 43 degrees without water and a hat that read weather maps.

They died because they trusted other people that don't check anything, because I didn't bring gear that walked like a herd. By the way, what is important to note that's not only on Israelis. There were English and Polish, New Zealand and Hong Kong (which is what I got from the injured list released were probably more countries).

Apparently, people who travel there thought their backs off porterim not only the weight of the case but also the weight of responsibility.

imtl  
#48 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:21:10 AM(UTC)
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[Quote = iobelsh; 582115]

[Quote = imtl; 582113]

Quote from the words of a British hiker who interviewed for BBC. Tsico what you want.

Mr Sheridan added: "My view is that this incident could have been prevented. I knew the weather forecast before I set off.

"Having spoken to my guide, who wasn't there but t standard Windows.obviously has been there, they say that the weight that the porters carry is so great that they leave behind as their own personal safety to lighten their load. That to me is an absolute disgusting folly.

"All they are doing is leading people to a certain death, and themselves.

"If someone had taken the responsibility just to stop people going up there, I'm sure the other fatalities would have been a lot less. They were herded up that mountain to their death, and something needs to be done to address those facts. "

"They were like a herd up the mountain to their deaths."

To say that people die because they don't know how to read weather maps

That's like saying my name put that out for a stroll in the Judean desert on the day of 43 degrees without water and a hat that read weather maps.

They died because they trusted other people that don't check anything, because I didn't bring gear that walked like a herd. By the way, what is important to note that's not only on Israelis. There were English and Polish, New Zealand and Hong Kong (which is what I got from the injured list released were probably more countries).

Apparently, people who travel there thought their backs off porterim not only the weight of the case but also the weight of responsibility.

Not because I didn't know how to read weather maps. But because they don't know to look around for a second before hitting the road. And after hitting the road.

Because they took a chance with no real experience in conditions they don't walk.

And the argument that here also people from cold and snow died this argument. It's normal human torso snow half the year. Another says he has no idea what to do. The vast majority of people in the cities, commuters in cars when there are severe storms are staying at home. Or simply being killed even in countries of origin. So that argument is really not serious. (Can't remember who claimed that in this long thread)

הלך  
#49 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 10:02:45 AM(UTC)
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"We had no warning as sheep to the slaughter" is the headline of Maariv, not mine.
I can't issue warning about opinion, personal responsibility, institutional conduct, etc.-these areas I just listened.
The quote that I chose to bring about the nature of the trip before the controls (people going to the Himalayas to walk the 400-year-old man column!)
גלילאו  
#50 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 11:01:31 AM(UTC)
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A column of 400 people doesn't sound excessive during peak season.
Waiting to hear or see the traffic and up Mount Everest.
Yes, I mean those climbers up Everest, where they have to wait in line to have their picture taken.

יובלש  
#51 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 2:19:16 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = imtl; 582116]

[Quote = iobelsh; 582115]

[Quote = imtl; 582113]

Quote from the words of a British hiker who interviewed for BBC. Tsico what you want.

Mr Sheridan added: "My view is that this incident could have been prevented. I knew the weather forecast before I set off.

"Having spoken to my guide, who wasn't there but t standard Windows.obviously has been there, they say that the weight that the porters carry is so great that they leave behind as their own personal safety to lighten their load. That to me is an absolute disgusting folly.

"All they are doing is leading people to a certain death, and themselves.

"If someone had taken the responsibility just to stop people going up there, I'm sure the other fatalities would have been a lot less. They were herded up that mountain to their death, and something needs to be done to address those facts. "

"They were like a herd up the mountain to their deaths."

To say that people die because they don't know how to read weather maps

That's like saying my name put that out for a stroll in the Judean desert on the day of 43 degrees without water and a hat that read weather maps.

They died because they trusted other people that don't check anything, because I didn't bring gear that walked like a herd. By the way, what is important to note that's not only on Israelis. There were English and Polish, New Zealand and Hong Kong (which is what I got from the injured list released were probably more countries).

Apparently, people who travel there thought their backs off porterim not only the weight of the case but also the weight of responsibility.

Not because I didn't know how to read weather maps. But because they don't know to look around for a second before hitting the road. And after hitting the road.

Because they took a chance with no real experience in conditions they don't walk.

And the argument that here also people from cold and snow died this argument. It's normal human torso snow half the year. Another says he has no idea what to do. The vast majority of people in the cities, commuters in cars when there are severe storms are staying at home. Or simply being killed even in countries of origin. So that argument is really not serious. (Can't remember who claimed that in this long thread)

Eyal, I think you misunderstood my point about humans from other countries.

Not that it was aimed at people from cold and snow module (in Hong Kong far less snow falls from Israel if at all).

I set it not to be there, I think the whole atmosphere is completely different from a trekking in the Dolomites Alps, Pyrenees and the big u.s. trails AT and PCT (for wouldn't last and just guessing).

Polish mountains there never got what you call "chick" path Thailand.

And the British and New Zealanders there must be learned on the track "Chabad House dependent notes" as you wrote on the Israelis.

Yet everyone in the same way where the Israelis landed.

Therefore, we should find out why not only the Israelis don't drive like Annapurna Israelis on TMB or Alta via

But why even the British and the poles and the Germans and the Americans behave differently there than we all met and go trekking on somewhere else.

I submit that the lack of atmosphere (column of 400 men seriously. it) causes people to remove personal responsibility themselves feeling if everyone's probably fine.

And returns and claims that might close the local Porter makes people feel safer if he goes then there is no problem.

Otherwise, I can't figure out how man 400 Israelis of not walking head-on into a snowstorm without horrible to ponder and question the wisdom of such a move.

Edited by user Sunday, October 19, 2014 2:29:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

klum  
#52 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 3:01:54 PM(UTC)
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To the last question: iobelsh
The hubris.
A little humility before nature not killed anyone yet.
יובלש  
#53 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 4:41:54 PM(UTC)
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If hubris was the correct answer would have seen similar cases in other treks in the world.

I'm still sticking with the explanations I gave earlier.
The false sense of security that gives "the herd" you go with him.
The false sense of security that gives the local private going "me and certainly know" in total misery, Porter.

And perhaps a minor reason to add relative detachment from (realized in most places there are available online so it is difficult to verify independently forecasts online
And I don't know if the tea houses and guesthouses hang prominently Bolton weather like ripiog which makes the best jeans in Europe. There is clarity.
The survivors ' reports. Some of which were ignoring warnings and some claim there were no warnings. Anyway, as a secondary reason that deer sometimes enough to look out the window or go half an hour to decide that should pass and insisting to continue)
klum  
#54 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:32:31 PM(UTC)
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Agree with most of what you say.
Just put the subject of hubris as a supplement to your own argument in terms that might be called him ה"נפשי" arguments here were even in the knowledge of the territory, local populations, etc, but the question asked: what brings hundreds of people, some even wise, to acting, aderit and defiant into catastrophe, snickerdoodles
As more vanity perhaps I am wrong, and the psychological mob phenomenon to explain learning.
Agree very much with your opinion about trust ... you know, walking alone in a strange and challenging environment, forces you to be wrong ... knowing that if God forbid, doesn't remember the tinag and cautiously asked, nobody will do it for you, and who will pay for that price would be solely you swarm of 400 even if someone wants one, will struggle to do so.
Incidentally, I for one prefer to go alone, but sometimes, you know, the loneliness.

I find a friend here in the Forum that despite a lot of crap that niktavo him, and a lot of crap that I wrote, which followed the who track, were barely see the discussion forum (even if just guests), it is possible that the track was the story ends differently.

Edited by user Sunday, October 19, 2014 5:54:12 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

imtl  
#55 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 6:10:54 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = iobelsh; 582125]

Eyal, I think you misunderstood my point about humans from other countries.

Not that it was aimed at people from cold and snow module (in Hong Kong far less snow falls from Israel if at all).

I set it not to be there, I think the whole atmosphere is completely different from a trekking in the Dolomites Alps, Pyrenees and the big u.s. trails AT and PCT (for wouldn't last and just guessing).

Polish mountains there never got what you call "chick" path Thailand.

And the British and New Zealanders there must be learned on the track "Chabad House dependent notes" as you wrote on the Israelis.

Yet everyone in the same way where the Israelis landed.

Therefore, we should find out why not only the Israelis don't drive like Annapurna Israelis on TMB or Alta via

But why even the British and the poles and the Germans and the Americans behave differently there than we all met and go trekking on somewhere else.

I submit that the lack of atmosphere (column of 400 men seriously. it) causes people to remove personal responsibility themselves feeling if everyone's probably fine.

And returns and claims that might close the local Porter makes people feel safer if he goes then there is no problem.

Otherwise, I can't figure out how man 400 Israelis of not walking head-on into a snowstorm without horrible to ponder and question the wisdom of such a move.

Hi Yuval

Actually, what I wrote about people from other countries doesn't mean anything you said. Someone threw this argument in recent days and already forgot who it was.

Anyway to the point. So I agree in principle, but from what I've seen personally in the Annapurna region. A growing population in the wild is inexperienced and knowledge. So I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the tourists who lost their lives went like a herd and think for a moment what they were getting into. They are also not taking responsibility for themselves. You know what's amazing. Currently there are 19 tourists killed and another Israeli concern had unfortunately taken very seriously. IE 3 Israelis out of 19 or 20 4 Israelis. That's a huge percentage in relation to the size of our population. Simply enormous.

Ultimately, the amount and percentage of Israelis who are involved in accidents, disasters, another thing that is high relative to the size of the population. I get the impression in recent years that the approach would be fine/go/just me dandruff is a disaster.

By the way, you should check the topic but no Germans were murdered. I know that some poles. I know about British people. Canadian have died and I think really the same blacks. Should also check who the civilians killed. What age range. There are a lot of parameters that need to be tested. We know for sure that the Israelis who died were young people under the age of 30. What is the situation in other Nations? If anyone has the information, so I would appreciate him/her if a:/publish.

I tell you what else is bugging me. The approach I know better than anyone and have nothing to learn.

My approach is that each and every one can learn. If I go in feeling that I knew everything then. I lose things. 2. This is just nonsense and be aochryy. There's always something to learn from people. Even those with less experience than you. That's my attitude in life. And Yes, I also like to read on the Forum here. Because I feel there's an ego among the writers. People are learning that it's experiences and so it should be. Maximize information sharing and openness and attentiveness.

Edited by user Sunday, October 19, 2014 6:17:32 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

יובלש  
#56 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 6:36:02 PM(UTC)
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It has been really exceeds the specific topic but this forum is unusual on the Internet in terms of lack of ego, desire to learn and the willingness to share and help the other side (the only one like it in Orange where wild plants Forum I use to identify flowers I meet in Israel and abroad and sells it to me).

Suggest you take a peek once a weather forums. The amount of egos out there, unbelievable and personal rivalries that persist for more than a decade that most could have larger sums ב"למי.

On the other hand it means that at least who comes to this forum not infected I access know better than anyone, but on the contrary "I don't know anything and want to learn everything possible about the trek that I was going to go" so loudly, it may be true and correct, where is not like her.
imtl  
#57 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 6:46:09 PM(UTC)
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[Quote = iobelsh; 582138] actually it exceeds the specific topic but this forum is unusual on the Internet in terms of lack of ego, desire to learn and the willingness to share and help the other side (the only one like it in Orange where wild plants Forum I use to identify flowers I meet in Israel and abroad and sells it to me).

Suggest you take a peek once a weather forums. The amount of egos out there, unbelievable and personal rivalries that persist for more than a decade that most could have larger sums ב"למי.

On the other hand it means that at least who comes to this forum not infected I access know better than anyone, but on the contrary "I don't know anything and want to learn everything possible about the trek that I was going to go" so loudly, it may be true and correct, where is not like her.

So if you've gone for a moment let me more then a little something and return to the bleak reports from Nepal.

I will share with you and others in a case I had two years ago in Nepal. Got away from me a great itinerary I planned on anaslo and Ganesh of imal. (Snow fell an unexpected storm and shoulder height of day reminds anyone?). Anyway, I didn't have much time and I couldn't wait to thaw the snow because the weather continued to be colder than normal. So I went back to Kathmandu. And just walked around and met a friend there. The company we analyze here for days. Good company but with Israeli problem difficult. I spoke with quite a few (approx. 6 people) and you know what? They surprised me. Asked me to be a sort of "Guide" in the Annapurna route. Not into money or to determine where and how going. As therapist. Just like there's a dude already familiar in parts of Nepal and it seems that you can learn something from him. And actually went through. To which I already know and I went. But I took the check and showed them a thing or two. Without bad weather. Without harsh conditions. Simple and beautiful track and weather. And they just took all the information given and did they move followed. I even learned from it. Maybe not on the technique in the mountains but other things.

Egos don't get anywhere. Or one place. To the morgue.

So maybe the outcry here is not in the right place. I also place is not other forums but really. That may not be able to change access to thousands but 6 people and maybe they already put things away. I can only hope. Always keep trying. If you want of course. I don't believe in forcing people to listen to.

Incidentally, a similar incident happened to me in CERRO CASTILLO. After I managed to avoid the big storm on the ridge. The hostel in the village down several dozen Israelis who had at some point realized what I was doing in Patagonia and just sat and milked me with information on the area and how it is appropriate and advisable to trek there. You know what? "About me" 3 simple company planned to leave the next day no matter what, changed plans and went to town this week to buy gear and read a little bit about the trek back after that and from what I heard they had great Trek, and just continue with trekking more suited to others. You don't even want to know what equipment they wanted to climb to the ridge just a month before the Israeli was killed there (December 2013). Gluttony. Out of lack of experience in the mountains. I really feel that they are "managed" their lives. The same thing happened to me after I finished the journey in Patagonia and stopped 4 Terek cross dating to the company. They just heard from a friend that did and just thought out. After talking they realized the season was over and that they are not ready for this yet. Good enough descriptions.

Edited by user Sunday, October 19, 2014 8:35:31 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

יובלש  
#58 Posted : Sunday, October 19, 2014 6:52:35 PM(UTC)
יובלש

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[Quote = imtl; 582139]

[Quote = iobelsh; 582138] actually it exceeds the specific topic but this forum is unusual on the Internet in terms of lack of ego, desire to learn and the willingness to share and help the other side (the only one like it in Orange where wild plants Forum I use to identify flowers I meet in Israel and abroad and sells it to me).

Suggest you take a peek once a weather forums. The amount of egos out there, unbelievable and personal rivalries that persist for more than a decade that most could have larger sums ב"למי.

On the other hand it means that at least who comes to this forum not infected I access know better than anyone, but on the contrary "I don't know anything and want to learn everything possible about the trek that I was going to go" so loudly, it may be true and correct, where is not like her.

So I will share with you and others in a case I had two years ago in Nepal. Got away from me a great itinerary I planned on anaslo and Ganesh of imal. (Snow fell an unexpected storm and shoulder height of day reminds anyone?). Anyway, I didn't have much time and I couldn't wait to thaw the snow because the weather continued to be colder than normal. So I went back to Kathmandu. And just walked around and met a friend there. The company we analyze here for days. Good company but with Israeli problem difficult. I spoke with quite a few (approx. 6 people) and you know what? They surprised me. Asked me to be a sort of "Guide" in the Annapurna route. Not into money or to determine where and how going. As therapist. Just like there's a dude already familiar in parts of Nepal and it seems that you can learn something from him. And actually went through. To which I already know and I went. But I took the check and showed them a thing or two. Without bad weather. Without harsh conditions. Simple and beautiful track and weather. And they just took all the information given and did they move followed. I even learned from it. Maybe not on the technique in the mountains but other things.

Egos don't get anywhere. Or one place. To the morgue.

So maybe the outcry here is not in the right place. I also place is not other forums but really. That may not be able to change access to thousands but 6 people and maybe they already put things away. I can only hope. Always keep trying. If you want of course. I don't believe in forcing people to listen to.

I sign on it (and thanks marker).

Sometimes the awareness comes (unfortunately) only through big disasters. Maybe something will change.

HarmonicWave  
#59 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2014 2:02:41 AM(UTC)
HarmonicWave

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ALE-the age of victims (23, 25, 30 and missing over thirty)-I don't think you can attribute it to excess and ego is fine in this case.

It seems, as much as possible to see the reports in the media, that it is not responsible for people looking to get into trouble and tried to help others.

In addition, the rate of fatalities from the casualties:

1. really small number to draw any statistical conclusions.

2. need to compare it to the overall travellers Trek. Here is a list with no people in the region and countries of origin. I'm not sure that the Israelis are listed, but it's the only source I could find.

For me, the point here is that the Trek is the attraction in backpacking For some it is the only serious trek will all the East.

Access, and completely different than for bikers, so as noted there is no Jubilee Threading hundreds of pages on the Trek (and there is no concatenation so large on the Hawaii-whoosh in Peru).

This approach to perform extreme (ע"ע apromak rafting), trekking, etc, as part of the backpacking experience is very typical of Israelis but don't marks us.

Agrees that the herd effect can be devastating in such situations. Need to have a strong character to decide against the majority.

imtl  
#60 Posted : Monday, October 20, 2014 2:46:28 AM(UTC)
imtl

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[Quote = HarmonicWave; 582146]

ALE-the age of victims (23, 25, 30 and missing over thirty)-I don't think you can attribute it to excess and ego is fine in this case.

It seems, as much as possible to see the reports in the media, that it is not responsible for people looking to get into trouble and tried to help others.

In addition, the rate of fatalities from the casualties:

1. really small number to draw any statistical conclusions.

2. need to compare it to the overall travellers Trek. Here is a list with no people in the region and countries of origin. I'm not sure that the Israelis are listed, but it's the only source I could find.

For me, the point here is that the Trek is the attraction in backpacking For some it is the only serious trek will all the East.

Access, and completely different than for bikers, so as noted there is no Jubilee Threading hundreds of pages on the Trek (and there is no concatenation so large on the Hawaii-whoosh in Peru).

This approach to perform extreme (ע"ע apromak rafting), trekking, etc, as part of the backpacking experience is very typical of Israelis but don't marks us.

Agrees that the herd effect can be devastating in such situations. Need to have a strong character to decide against the majority.

Hey shine

I value your opinion very much but I have some reservations.

I have no idea if in the case of the three dead was all about ego. When I write my opinion about this shocking case and other cases I'm talking about symptoms that I saw with my own eyes Israeli backpackers. And ditching the case here.

I don't trust the Israeli media reports that tends to glorify and praise stories (that were) rather than dealing what travellers bring all made this situation. The Israeli media and embarrassing ignorance in all the articles I've seen in the last week is not something I'd trust him. And yet,

I don't see where the responsibility of the people who had died.

-Agreed they didn't want to get into trouble. Don't think anybody who came running.

I sure tried to help others. They were the salt of the Earth. Unfortunately they are no longer that experience and understand their concerns were very bad.

1. the Government and the Nepalese Army announced that efforts to locate survivors are stopped and the missing are dead. Do efforts to extract corpses. So far have not killed 83. And a few hundred travellers were rescued. It's already starting to be numbers of statistics. Unfortunately, if the body of the Israeli and the Israeli death toll rose 4.

2. the rate hike is relatively high in relation to the size of our population and the populations of other countries. We are traveling and hiking.

The Israeli backpackers earned what I encountered until now is not to investigate and plan what they are going to do. The herd phenomenon starts from Israel by buying tickets to the East and South America, and only when you get there they ask: so what are you supposed to do? What the Israelis do? And this phenomenon seen in many cases. People who don't even read Web page not to mention trips Lonely Planet style book, which is the one that matches what they do. But the main buying plane tickets.

Look at yourself on the site for various forums on world regions. More than one quarter of the posts are there. "Well, I have a ticket and flew in two days. So what is there to do in South America. " The amount of people coming in so scary easy. Don't talk about search ads. "I hardly see a search such as this partner for such planning and stuff." What I mainly see is: "looking for partners for soft-landing and obituaries." I'm looking to chat with someone in English and I have no idea what to do after the landing.

We're talking about so there's 400 post messages on Annapurna? I didn't expect to be here. But, how can you not discuss risk and minimal travel forum about what happened? How can there be a serious discussion with an attempt to draw conclusions for the company still came out in the future? There are some people who I really respect and who know Nepal. Access to forums where average represents the average Israeli. That's the problem. And you're right. There is a difference between budget and access to aiikrim. Unfortunately nature no distinction between the two. So that argument doesn't help.

And Lastly,

This approach to perform extreme (ע"ע apromak rafting), trekking, etc, as part of the backpacking experience and approach I know better than anyone else and be OK is very characteristic and Israelis from designated us.

Hope you went to the back of my mind all that.

Eyal

Edited by user Monday, October 20, 2014 1:06:45 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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